3 PH post hole digger

[frugalangler]

I need to punch some 12" holes for some piers but the location of a few are about 6 feet from some pretty large oak trees. Will I be able to get a couple feet down with a 3 PH auger on a SCUT or will I need to find a different approach?

 

[Fallon]

I need to punch some 12" holes for some piers but the location of a few are about 6 feet from some pretty large oak trees. Will I be able to get a couple feet down with a 3 PH auger on a SCUT or will I need to find a different approach?

Very iffy. If your auger catches a root your tractor might not be able to pull it back out of the hole. Without reverse, you are left with a 4' pipe wrench ($60-70 at Harbor Freight) to manually back the auger out of the hole.

 

[gwstang]

Very iffy. If your auger catches a root your tractor might not be able to pull it back out of the hole. Without reverse, you are left with a 4' pipe wrench ($60-70 at Harbor Freight) to manually back the auger out of the hole.

Also add a large breaker bar about 5 or 6' long that will fit over the handle of said pipe wrench. Practice unwinding because you are going to need that skill set. Been there an done that....several times.

 

[Sysop]

My advice would be similar to drilling any difficult hole. Start with a smaller auger and make a pilot hole. Less chance of screwing the bit in, less torque required to back it out if it happens, a smaller auger stands a better chance of chewing through a root than a large one, and it all happens without as much effort and beating on your tractor. Just remember to lower the auger very slowly, in small increments, and keep your hand at the ready to shut down the PTO if it starts to screw into the ground (trying to lift will do nothing but bog the engine and strain the driveline once it starts to screw in).

 

[frugalangler]

Thanks SYSOP, that's the type of advice I was looking for. I've poked holes 6" diameter with a two-man so it sounds doable if we go slow and poke pilots. Would 3" then 6" be a reasonable approach, or would just 3"work better? How well will a larger pilot hole work? With spade bits in wood it doesn't work if pilot is larger than the center cone tip.

 

[kthompson]

I have help a nephew with driller holes around trees and yes all that has been said but one thing and it may be my misunderstanding: as frugalander asked I was not aware there were bits that allowed you to step drill, thought they were like wood bits once a hole was drilled you lost the ability to control a larger bit. That is great is there is bits that will handle step drilling and if so I am again learning.

For my nickel think would try to get a hyd post hole drill for those holes, do so and back out if need be.

How about washing the holes through the roots of the tree? Would be nasty but you might could with a pressure washer. You may need to only go a couple of feet. Will depend on your soil and the type of oak.

 

[Grandad4]

If the hole is going to be 72" inches from the trunk of a large oak tree, odds are you will find one or more roots. If you are only going down 24", why not just do it by hand?

 

[frugalangler]

..... why not just do it by hand?

I simply don't have the physical ability to operate a manual pick & shovel - machinery and leverage have become my best friends (hence why I bought a TLB)! I suppose if I get into a 'bind' and have to back the auger out, I'll have to labor down and finish it out by hand. Or, clear the hole and cut the offending root, then maybe continue on - yep, 24" isn't terribly deep, but I have to look for less labor intensive methods for everything I do. Y'all will understand as you accumulate birthdays! :laughing:

 

[kthompson]

frugalangler, this topic is running in another thread right now. Suggest you look at it. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/342514-post-hole-digger-pto-vs.html

Have feeling it will come down to you using a pto digger and trying it. A very big recommendation, you run that tractor at the lowest pto rpms you can. I would lower it and let it dig two or three inches and lift it out. Hope you have someone who can either operate the tractor or look for roots. If all clear try cutting another couple of inches and lift it out. The tractor operator as has been said already must be ready to stop the pto in a split second to minimize any damage and to limit the amount the auger is under the roots. If you do end up with auger in roots depending on your post hole digger's design remove the pto shaft from the digger and use that yoke to slide metal rod in and easier than a pipe wrench for you have the gearing in your favor.

One other thought, take a 30 inch long steel rod with a way to attach a chain to it, drive it 24 inches into the dirt or till you hit a root. (Rebar would work for this if you have a way to hook to it. You may be able to make a loop with a strap and drop it over the rebar and it hold to lift it out.) Either way mark what you found at that place. Use tractor's lift or front end loader, maybe can use the post hold digger to pull the rod out and move it and try enough areas to give you a good idea what you are up against.

 

[Grandad4]

I simply don't have the physical ability to operate a manual pick & shovel - machinery and leverage have become my best friends (hence why I bought a TLB)! I suppose if I get into a 'bind' and have to back the auger out, I'll have to labor down and finish it out by hand. Or, clear the hole and cut the offending root, then maybe continue on - yep, 24" isn't terribly deep, but I have to look for less labor intensive methods for everything I do. Y'all will understand as you accumulate birthdays! :laughing:

Yes, I indeed do understand! But I'm concerned that using a 3 point auger so close to a large tree has the potential to leave you in an even worse predicament if it gets wound up in a root or something else whilst drilling out that 24" hole. And once you free-up the auger, you would probably have to open up the rest of the hole manually anyways! Was just hinting it might be easier to do it the old fashioned way for those not-too-deep holes.

All the best with your project. Is there any chance of adjusting the placement of your piers to avoid being close to those trees? Perhaps there might be someone - a relative, neighbor, friend, someone at your church, etc. - who would stop by for a little while and help you with those troublesome holes.

 

[kthompson]

Grandad4, I am a grand dad with four grands. One thing I have learned and do over and over I am glad to help a neighbor and do so often. Broke off my work yesterday to do just that. But the problem is I hate to ask for help myself. I support your suggestion to the op, ask for help. It something I need to do right now on a mower myself.

 

[Fallon]

Whenever I need help like for installing my fence I just advertise that I'm trading tractor work for manual labor. Nextdoor.com (kind of geographically restricted Facebook for neighbors) is excellent for that type of thing & for alerts of missing/found critters among other things.

It's a trade so you don't feel like you are taking advantage of anybody inappropriately.

 

[sbct]

I have been in your exact situation. My experience was that it was pure luck. I drilled 8 holes for fence posts through an area of oak trees. 6 went through no problem at all. Hit roots on 2 of them. No rhyme or reason. Just luck on where the roots underground grew.

I do agree 100% with the advice to dig a few inches at a time. An extra 5 minutes to dig a hole is a solid investment compared to the 45 minutes it took me to get my auger bit out of the ground after it screwed into a good sized root.

 

[radioman]

if you have tlb,, use the backhoe instead in the trouble areas. no need to swap augers and then find out you still screwed in. you only going 2 feet. on a scut size like yours the bucket is 12 inches anyways - so just forgo the posthole digging.

 

[Grandad4]

Radioman is on to something here. See if your local Home Depot has a rental department. Many of the HD rental places have a Kubota BX25 available for rent. Its little backhoe would be perfect for getting down a couple of feet around some tree roots. You'd have to learn how to operate it, and it might make something of a mess, but it would probably be an easy way to do your digging and deal with whatever roots you're going to encounter. Whichever way you do it, you'll need to cut away any roots that block your placement of the holes.

Other rental yards will likely have larger backhoes that would do the same thing, only you'd have a larger mess also!

 

[CobyRupert]

Sort of related topic:
When people screw in and hang up their auger, it seems the solution is to get a big pipe wrench (and cheater bars) to clamp onto the auger and unscrew. But has anyone unscrewed the auger by clamping onto the pto shaft and using the mechanical advantage of the PHD's gear box?

 

[bdog]

Everyone has to work with what they have. I have owned 3pt post hole diggers and I hate them. It seems they they are either getting stuck which is a nightmare since you can't reverse them or they simply won't dig into hard ground due to lack of down pressure. Getting rid of my 3pt and getting a hydraulic auger was the best upgrade I have done. I have dug thousands of holes with it.

Backing out a stuck auger by hand is not a fun job.

 

[Catoosa]

And a guy that digs 6 holes a year can't justify the cost of a hydraulic auger. I use my neighbors 3 point auger, it is all but shot but still more or less works. Good enough for the small amount of holes I have done over the last several years. And beats the heck out of a manual post hole digger.

 

[gwstang]

"And beats the heck out of a manual post hole digger."

Amen to that!

 

[Redlands Okie]

Perhaps use your back hoe as suggested to dig out in the needed area. When done you could do two things.
1. Put the dirt back in and compact it with the front tractor tires if nothing else then Auger out your hole.
2. Get sono tube (card board tube) from local supply house or box store and set it in hole. Back fill and compact around the sono tube.

Be sure the bottom of your holes have no loose dirt in them however you get it done.