Tires To load or not to load tires

[TheMan419]

For what it is worth I have not filled my tires. If I were doing a ton of loader work I would consider it. That also said, I had the bush hog on most of the summer. If I had a bit of work to do not involving the hog I just left it on rather than disconnect/reconnect. Finally removed it since the summer is over. Must different ride and I have to admit I miss the extra weight.

So what am I going to do? Likely get a weight box and fill it with sand, bricks, or rocks.... or some combination.

 

[JerryK]

Foam tires can be out of round. They can also develop soft spots [ areas that have been damaged from experiencing a blow ] or from inconsistencies in the foam while it was filled. Not saying they are bad, but everything has consequences...

 

[RoyJackson]

For what it is worth I have not filled my tires. If I were doing a ton of loader work I would consider it. That also said, I had the bush hog on most of the summer. If I had a bit of work to do not involving the hog I just left it on rather than disconnect/reconnect. Finally removed it since the summer is over. Must different ride and I have to admit I miss the extra weight.

So what am I going to do? Likely get a weight box and fill it with sand, bricks, or rocks.... or some combination.

Sand works really good...no air spaces like you'd get with rocks, bricks, etc. And, as it settles, you can add more
Some folks use concrete and use PVC pipe to make holder for shovels, rakes, etc. Good idea too!
I like sand for two reasons: 1) you can shovel it out to adjust the weight and 2) you can shovel some out to provide better tractor in slick conditions. I've never had any need to adjust the weight, but I have used the sand to aid in traction on occasion.

I'd estimate my weight box, including sand, goes around 900 lbs.

 

[motownbrowne]

This is absolutely false. The foam is not rigid in any way and has no properties similar to those of concrete. Please do some research before you spread misinformation like that.

With beet juice if you damage a tire you lose the fluid in the tire and have to take the whole thing back to the tire shop for repairs and to refill the beet juice. That likely takes up a day or more by the time it's all said and done and is a huge mess to deal with not to mention likely requires another tractor to move/load the damaged tire/wheel assembly. With foam in your tires you spend that day working instead of wasting time and $. In the end it's cheaper to use foam for people like me who use equipment in places like construction sites and in the timber where tire damage is common. It may not be for everyone but it's certainly a legitimate option that not only gives you increased traction/stability but also makes your machine more capable and tires more dependable driving over debris.

I certainly understand the potential economic benefits of foam filled tires. No flats. Makes sense. There's drawbacks too, expensive, pain to replace tires, etc. Sometimes you can actually save the beet juice or other fluid when getting new tires and reuse it. Anyway, in many situations, no flats would be worth the price tag and hassle


Now, onto this "misinformation" that I'm "spreading"... I don't have any foam filled tires. I've never knowingly run any either, though it's possible. But, I've never seen a discussion of foam filled tires without a mention of the rough ride. Not once. After you implored me to do some "research" I googled "foam filled tires ride" lots and lots of mentions of the rough ride. One post stating that the farmer couldn't drive his tractor over 5 mph because if the ride. More than one mention that the shock that now isn't getting absorbed by the air in the tire is being transferred to other components of the machine.

Anyway, yes foam filled tires have benefits. For construction equipment it may make sense. As a way to add weight in on a CUT (that's what this conversation if about after all), I don't think it pencils out. I'd definitely be curious to know the price to have a couple of rear tractor tires foamed. My guess is you'd want to be sitting down when they told you.


Edited to add: if you have info about a softer riding foam filled tire, please do share it. I think that'd be good knowledge for a lot of folks here.

Also, regarding price, here a TBN thread where a guy gets a quote to have his tractor tires filled. It's a bigger tractor, but he was quoted $1450/rear tire, which was about 4X the price of beet juice. Just one example, who knows what the price is today. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/357558-tires-foam-flats-costs.html

 

[art]

For what you are doing filling the rear tires can be advantages! Not as much as three point ballast could be as that actually uses the rear axle for a pivot so you are actually saving your steering wear points and the stress on the hydraulic steering. We still do load most rear ag tires when loader equipped but many are adding weights to the axle and adjusting their operation accordingly. Compacts are a mixed bag and we have them all ways.
We do not load front tires unless requested do to the fact you can overload a tractor.

Radial tires get far worse traction with loaded tires! What we have found rooughly half the weight of the fluid and you will have equal pulling performance! Worse part it will cut the life in half as well for what we have seen! If there is not a loader going on we have not loaded an ag tire in nearly twenty years even on our hills. Bias tires doesn't seem to be effected as much as the radials do.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Also, regarding price, here a TBN thread where a guy gets a quote to have his tractor tires filled. It's a bigger tractor, but he was quoted $1450/rear tire, which was about 4X the price of beet juice. Just one example, who knows what the price is today. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/357558-tires-foam-flats-costs.html

If I recall the price right, I paid around $400 for 1250 pounds of RimGuard to be installed into four tires.

As an added bonus, beet juice plugged at least one 6 penny nail hole with its sticky, gooey purple goodness that has held for two years without leaking.

 

[roadhunter]

I certainly understand the potential economic benefits of foam filled tires. No flats. Makes sense. There's drawbacks too, expensive, pain to replace tires, etc. Sometimes you can actually save the beet juice or other fluid when getting new tires and reuse it. Anyway, in many situations, no flats would be worth the price tag and hassle


Now, onto this "misinformation" that I'm "spreading"... I don't have any foam filled tires. I've never knowingly run any either, though it's possible. But, I've never seen a discussion of foam filled tires without a mention of the rough ride. Not once. After you implored me to do some "research" I googled "foam filled tires ride" lots and lots of mentions of the rough ride. One post stating that the farmer couldn't drive his tractor over 5 mph because if the ride. More than one mention that the shock that now isn't getting absorbed by the air in the tire is being transferred to other components of the machine.

Anyway, yes foam filled tires have benefits. For construction equipment it may make sense. As a way to add weight in on a CUT (that's what this conversation if about after all), I don't think it pencils out. I'd definitely be curious to know the price to have a couple of rear tractor tires foamed. My guess is you'd want to be sitting down when they told you.

The misinformation that you are spreading is claiming the foam is like filling tires with concrete. That is absolutely not true. It's more like rubber/jelly if you are curious. I have never had an issue with ride comfort in any of the equipment I ran with foam. I've roaded my JCB 550 telehandler 20+ miles and never was an issue running as fast as it would go on asphalt. You'd be surprised how many pieces of equipment use foam in tires.


What does a day of your time and the bill to repair a tire and refill the beet juice cost? Even just a couple of those events over the life of a tire can make the cost for beet juice more than foam filling not to mention the lost production.

Essentially the people who use equipment for working in tougher conditions (timber, construction site, etc)to make a living choose foam over beet juice. For farm equipment that works in fields where driving over things that will puncture a tire is less likely then beet juice works fine. Homeowner/landowner use is hard to gauge as some CUT's are washed and waxed before they are put up in the garage and rarely do any real work while others are used and abused cleaning and clearing property as well as doing other tasks around the property that involve driving over sticks, stumps, branches, rocks, etc. Just depends how the equipment is used.

 

[motownbrowne]

The misinformation that you are spreading is claiming the foam is like filling tires with concrete. That is absolutely not true. It's more like rubber/jelly if you are curious. I have never had an issue with ride comfort in any of the equipment I ran with foam. I've roaded my JCB 550 telehandler 20+ miles and never was an issue running as fast as it would go on asphalt. You'd be surprised how many pieces of equipment use foam in tires.


What does a day of your time and the bill to repair a tire and refill the beet juice cost? Even just a couple of those events over the life of a tire can make the cost for beet juice more than foam filling not to mention the lost production.

Essentially the people who use equipment for working in tougher conditions (timber, construction site, etc)to make a living choose foam over beet juice. For farm equipment that works in fields where driving over things that will puncture a tire is less likely then beet juice works fine. Homeowner/landowner use is hard to gauge as some CUT's are washed and waxed before they are put up in the garage and rarely do any real work while others are used and abused cleaning and clearing property as well as doing other tasks around the property that involve driving over sticks, stumps, branches, rocks, etc. Just depends how the equipment is used.

Agreed. It depends. Honestly I've been around tractors my whole life. When our Kubota was brand new I rolled a front tire off the rim. That's the only time I've had an unexpected flat. I had a rusted rim (CaCl) on an 8n cut a valve stem. It was a slow leak. Tire guy came out, pumped out the fluid, installed the tire and a new tube on a new rim and reused the fluid.

That said, I don't want to pay for my rimguard again. I don't like the idea of it running out of my rear tires, but I don't think it's likely to happen.

Regarding my concrete comment, I'm sorry it bothered you. If you'd prefer to describe the ride as solid rubber versus concrete, that's fine by me. I've read several descriptions of the ride as "concrete-like", so I'll probably continue to use that term.

 

[roadhunter]

Agreed. It depends. Honestly I've been around tractors my whole life. When our Kubota was brand new I rolled a front tire off the rim. That's the only time I've had an unexpected flat. I had a rusted rim (CaCl) on an 8n cut a valve stem. It was a slow leak. Tire guy came out, pumped out the fluid, installed the tire and a new tube on a new rim and reused the fluid.

That said, I don't want to pay for my rimguard again. I don't like the idea of it running out of my rear tires, but I don't think it's likely to happen.

Regarding my concrete comment, I'm sorry it bothered you. If you'd prefer to describe the ride as solid rubber versus concrete, that's fine by me. I've read several descriptions of the ride as "concrete-like", so I'll probably continue to use that term.

Feel free to describe driving foamed tires as you like. Since you have never driven a vehicle with foamed tires it certainly won't bother me one bit just like your comment about concrete didn't' bother me, it simply made it seem as if you didn't' know what you were talking about. I was simply trying to help correct the misinformation you were spreading because you lacked experience with tire foam.

You said foaming tires was like filling them with concrete which is absolutely not accurate. Glad we got that straight. Before you go making any more incorrect claims about foamed tires riding rough or you latest statement "like solid rubber" why don't you check this video out. It may help you to better understand how tire foam works and compares instead of making statements like "It's not like the foam in a mattress" and "It's like filling your tires with concrete" or "the farmer couldn't even drive 5 mph with foamed tires". LAffin

 

[Henro]

Motownbrowne said:


"Edited to add: if you have info about a softer riding foam filled tire, please do share it. I think that'd be good knowledge for a lot of folks here. "

My comments are:

When I got the four tires filled on my BX2200, the tire shop had a display showing different densities of foam filling, which was set by the pressure it was cured at.

One sample was very soft, another medium and one very stiff. You could squeeze it with your fingers to feel the difference. The guy told me it was a function of the pressure they cured the foam at, or something like that. It has been over ten years now...so I don't remember exactly.

But my tires do have flex to them if I push on them with my foot. I also foam filled the fronts on the larger B2910 tractor, about 15 years ago, after flatting a few days after it was delivered. The rears on the larger tractor are filled with WW fluid, which I did myself. I made up my mind if I flat on one of those I will bite the bullet and get those foam filled as well...

I believe foam filling give the highest weight for tires, as it is a 100 percent fill factor.

Great product and no downsides that I can see except for the cost.

Bill

 

[motownbrowne]

Motownbrowne said:


"Edited to add: if you have info about a softer riding foam filled tire, please do share it. I think that'd be good knowledge for a lot of folks here. "

My comments are:

When I got the four tires filled on my BX2200, the tire shop had a display showing different densities of foam filling, which was set by the pressure it was cured at.

One sample was very soft, another medium and one very stiff. You could squeeze it with your fingers to feel the difference. The guy told me it was a function of the pressure they cured the foam at, or something like that. It has been over ten years now...so I don't remember exactly.

But my tires do have flex to them if I push on them with my foot. I also foam filled the fronts on the larger B2910 tractor, about 15 years ago, after flatting a few days after it was delivered. The rears on the larger tractor are filled with WW fluid, which I did myself. I made up my mind if I flat on one of those I will bite the bullet and get those foam filled as well...

I believe foam filling give the highest weight for tires, as it is a 100 percent fill factor.

Great product and no downsides that I can see except for the cost.

Bill

Huh, cool. That's good to know.

 

[motownbrowne]

Feel free to describe driving foamed tires as you like. Since you have never driven a vehicle with foamed tires it certainly won't bother me one bit just like your comment about concrete didn't' bother me, it simply made it seem as if you didn't' know what you were talking about. I was simply trying to help correct the misinformation you were spreading because you lacked experience with tire foam.

You said foaming tires was like filling them with concrete which is absolutely not accurate. Glad we got that straight. Before you go making any more incorrect claims about foamed tires riding rough or you latest statement "like solid rubber" why don't you check this video out. It may help you to better understand how tire foam works and compares instead of making statements like "It's not like the foam in a mattress" and "It's like filling your tires with concrete" or "the farmer couldn't even drive 5 mph with foamed tires". LAffin

This is a good discussion. Thanks for the video. Is tyrfil the only foam they use, or is it a specific type? Are other brands similarly squishy? Of course that video is put out by the manufacturer, and I'd basically an advertisement but I get the point.

So perhaps you're right, and I was spreading misinformation. I maintain that many people who run foam say it rides rough. In the future, though, I will say something like "foam filled tires have benefits and drawbacks (like everything) many operators report that they are stiff and make for a less comfortable ride."

While true thati don't personally have any experience to base this on, it is accurate, and not misinformation. After all, if we all only shared info that we had gotten from our personal hands-on experiences, we wouldn't have much to say.

 

[TheMan419]

Sand works really good...no air spaces like you'd get with rocks, bricks, etc. And, as it settles, you can add more
Some folks use concrete and use PVC pipe to make holder for shovels, rakes, etc. Good idea too!
I like sand for two reasons: 1) you can shovel it out to adjust the weight and 2) you can shovel some out to provide better tractor in slick conditions. I've never had any need to adjust the weight, but I have used the sand to aid in traction on occasion.

I'd estimate my weight box, including sand, goes around 900 lbs.

Yes I would start with sand/rocks before I filled the thing with cement. Need to iron out the kinks first. Also having the sand for use in traction would be a benefit. You can always put a pipe in and then fill around it with sand to use for a tool holder if that is important.

Having the ability to adjust if some need arose would be important to me. Even having the additional 500lbs of the mower seemed to make a huge difference.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Feel free to describe driving foamed tires as you like. Since you have never driven a vehicle with foamed tires it certainly won't bother me one bit just like your comment about concrete didn't' bother me, it simply made it seem as if you didn't' know what you were talking about. I was simply trying to help correct the misinformation you were spreading because you lacked experience with tire foam.

You said foaming tires was like filling them with concrete which is absolutely not accurate. Glad we got that straight. Before you go making any more incorrect claims about foamed tires riding rough or you latest statement "like solid rubber" why don't you check this video out. It may help you to better understand how tire foam works and compares instead of making statements like "It's not like the foam in a mattress" and "It's like filling your tires with concrete" or "the farmer couldn't even drive 5 mph with foamed tires". LAffin

It doesn't really test vs liquid filled tires, just run flats, foam and pneumatic tires.

I would guess the hardness of the foam also depends on how they fill it, in my mind if it over expands it could be very hard, doesn't expand enough and there's a possibility of flat spots so it sounds like it's more of the skill/experience of the guy filling the tire where any monkey with a manual pump can fill a tire with beet juice and washer fluid.

I also would like to think liquid would be easier on the tractor vs foam since the tractor doesn't have to spin the water weight like it does the foam weight. I'm kinda picturing a full glass of water with something floating in the water, if you spin in a circle the glass moves but the liquid stays kinda stationary along with the object in the water, at best it moves much slower than the glass, I would think a liquid filled tire would be similar. Less HP loss. But I have not researched it yet, just a thought.

 

[City Farmer]

Have you considered getting some burn outs? I had some made for my tractor from a fab shop up the road. They were reasonably priced, $320 for (4) 22.5" dia. X 2.5" thick about 1150lbs. When I went to pick them up the guy asked me what they were for. He said if he would've known, he could've burned out for the lugs also. He also said if I was a month earlier, it would've only been $260.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

https://m.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/3c9h39/how_does_the_air_inside_the_tire_of_a_moving_car/

I may be getting a little too involved but this site brings up some interesting points on the forces of water filled tires.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Here is some more things I found on the subject

Comparing Types of Liquid Tire Ballast | OrangeTractorTalks

Ballast: The Tractor Tire Fluids Rundown - Countryside Network

http://www.rimguard.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Hydro-Flation-tables-2014-PDF.pdf

If I filled my rears with rimguard it would add 920lbs to the machine, 13.6-28 rear tire size. Putting me at a over all weight of around 6200lbs well under a light tandem axle trailer so that's not an issue. But that would bring the center of gravity way down on the tractor.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

There's plenty of benefits to foam for sure but for my use, I don't need it. I don't work my tractor commercially, I mainly use it for cows and gravel driveway maintenance. Eventually I plan todo some bush hog work and redo driveways later down the road when I get more implements. So for my needs it comes down to washer fluid or beet juice.

Also I want to note, my tires aren't new so foam wouldn't be as viable since my tires are most likely original to the tractor. 2005. If I had a new tractor I would look into foam more closely

 

[motownbrowne]

Thanks for the links above. Cool info. Re: beet juice vs washer fluid, beet juice is heavier. It's also non-toxic. And more expensive. WW fluid you can do yourself with a few cheap tools and some spare time.

 

[oosik]

Sooo...... I have a couple ??. Does foam add much weight or is it mainly to prevent flats. I've heard that foam filled tires are a PITA when it comes time to install new tires - true?