Check out my new battery!

[C4Ranch]

What's the expected life of the batteries you all are using?

 

[k0ua]

What's the expected life of the batteries you all are using?

A lot depends on how they are treated.. Deep discharge is always a no no.

 

[dragoneggs]

What's the expected life of the batteries you all are using?

I think this is the big question on what the eventual ROI will be. How he uses/maintains the batteries is very important.

 

[greenmojo]

Just kind of guessing here, but it looks like your ROI will be about 10 years or even a little less? Nice setup and it sounds like you have learned a lot.

Thanks! I've learned a lot and still there is an unbelievable amount of knowledge I wish I had.

I wasn't concerned with ROI, mostly with just simply creating a modular system that was capable of generating as much power as we could possibly use up here. No doubt over the next 20 years, we'll be upgrading and replacing components as well go.

What's the expected life of the batteries you all are using?

At a minimum we should get a few thousand cycles from them before they really begin to degrade in performance. Our anticipation with these AGMs is we will only be bringing them down 20% to 30% per cycle rather than the usual 50% that is common when sizing a bank. This means we should get as many as 4000 cycles give-or-take and could even be more if we are gentle on our charging voltages.

~Moses

 

[dragoneggs]

Any idea on how often you will recycle/charge the batteries... every day? twice a week?

 

[greenmojo]

Any idea on how often you will recycle/charge the batteries... every day? twice a week?

During the summer, the panels will keep the battery floated during the day, and we'll only use on average 5% to 10% during the night. We'd do the math for a "cycle" every 2 or more days during good sun summer days and in the winter the system would be cycling each day.

Although wind is much less efficient and requires more maintenance, my plan this year is to get up two wind turbines to get a few hundred watts each hour throughout the night and that will extend our cycle time as well and increase longevity of the battery.

Wind doesn't excite me as much as solar, only because wind is a maintenance monster and solar is passive and will outlast me. But it is still relevant, until someone invents a darkness power panel. ;-)

~Moses

 

[k0ua]

I don't suppose you have a source of running water on the place?

 

[greenmojo]

I don't suppose you have a source of running water on the place?

Just the garden hose. ;-)

 

[dickfoster]

Thanks! I've learned a lot and still there is an unbelievable amount of knowledge I wish I had.

I wasn't concerned with ROI, mostly with just simply creating a modular system that was capable of generating as much power as we could possibly use up here. No doubt over the next 20 years, we'll be upgrading and replacing components as well go.



At a minimum we should get a few thousand cycles from them before they really begin to degrade in performance. Our anticipation with these AGMs is we will only be bringing them down 20% to 30% per cycle rather than the usual 50% that is common when sizing a bank. This means we should get as many as 4000 cycles give-or-take and could even be more if we are gentle on our charging voltages.

~Moses

Not too gentle with the recharge voltage on AGMs. The Odysseys I use like 14.7V until the current uptake drops off. Then a 13.6V float charge to keep it topped up. Go to the Odyssey site and read their tech info about the preferred charge profiles. Too much voltage and they'll vent which will ruin your battery and make you really mad. I had one overvolted from a bad regulator and it swelled up like a toad turning it into a door stop.

 

[greenmojo]

Not too gentle with the recharge voltage on AGMs. The Odysseys I use like 14.7V until the current uptake drops off. Then a 13.6V float charge to keep it topped up. Go to the Odyssey site and read their tech info about the preferred charge profiles. Too much voltage and they'll vent which will ruin your battery and make you really mad. I had one overvolted from a bad regulator and it swelled up like a toad turning it into a door stop.

Outback and Enersys want my absorb voltage set at 56v for generator charging and 56.4v for the solar charge controllers. In comparison to your 12v numbers that would be 14v.

I am going to see if they (Outback) will connect in to my system and go over all of the settings and make sure they are all good.

~Moses

 

[3930dave]

By building on land that your local utility wanted stupid money to wire, from where I sit OP, you've already hit your ROI.

Living in a province that has set a goal of attaining California-like kwh rates, it is nice to see someone give their local utility a one-finger salute.

There is only one downside to successes like yours getting wide publicity - it can lead to jurisdictions passing "safety" legislation requiring grid connection for occupancy permits. Many people don't have the financial discipline and personal drive to accomplish a project like yours, but the utilities are definitely fearful of this approach catching on.

Rgds, D.

 

[greenmojo]

By building on land that your local utility wanted stupid money to wire, from where I sit OP, you've already hit your ROI.

Living in a province that has set a goal of attaining California-like kwh rates, it is nice to see someone give their local utility a one-finger salute.

There is only one downside to successes like yours getting wide publicity - it can lead to jurisdictions passing "safety" legislation requiring grid connection for occupancy permits. Many people don't have the financial discipline and personal drive to accomplish a project like yours, but the utilities are definitely fearful of this approach catching on.

Rgds, D.

Good point.

My pride played a small part in it when I was told by the PUD sales guy that I couldn't make this work.

As for legislation, they tried a few years ago to pass a water meter bill here in WA state for private water wells. Additionally, they introduced but were not successful at charging an electric tax for off-grid properties. They attempted to convince people that off-grid properties are not contributing to the utility district and needed to do so with tax dollars.

I was told that utility districts aren't fearful of solar panels, they are accepting of that technology, their real enemy is the storage of power, the evil battery bank.

~Moses

 

[3930dave]

I was told that utility districts aren't fearful of solar panels, they are accepting of that technology, their real enemy is the storage of power, the evil battery bank.

~Moses

So long as the peasants keep selling their crops to the lairds of the manor for pennies, it's all good....

Independent peasants who pay no tribute...... that's sedition.....

Rgds, D.

 

[dragoneggs]

Good point.

My pride played a small part in it when I was told by the PUD sales guy that I couldn't make this work.

As for legislation, they tried a few years ago to pass a water meter bill here in WA state for private water wells. Additionally, they introduced but were not successful at charging an electric tax for off-grid properties. They attempted to convince people that off-grid properties are not contributing to the utility district and needed to do so with tax dollars.

I was told that utility districts aren't fearful of solar panels, they are accepting of that technology, their real enemy is the storage of power, the evil battery bank.

~Moses

Lots of kudos and respect to you Moses! If I was on your side of the mountain and had some help (like yours ) I would likely try the same. I studied solar energy engineering at UW back in the day and realized that the practicality wasn't there as long as I lived west of the cascades. Solar technology has advanced tremendously but global warming hasn't... so I will just drool over your system for now. :laughing: Looking forward to operational updates as you go along.

 

[Barry 1]

We NEED Pictures !!! Lots and Lots of pictures !!!

 

[n3ckf]

Wow this system is really impressive...

I built a *much smaller* system for a family i know who lives near Tonasket, WA off grid and just wow man. Good job!
I'll be back up there working on moving the solar panels for that system in early September in fact. (they were on the roof but i want to move them to ground mounts on the hill behind their building becuase it'll be more stable in winter).

 

[greenmojo]

Lots of kudos and respect to you Moses! If I was on your side of the mountain and had some help (like yours ) I would likely try the same. I studied solar energy engineering at UW back in the day and realized that the practicality wasn't there as long as I lived west of the cascades. Solar technology has advanced tremendously but global warming hasn't... so I will just drool over your system for now. :laughing: Looking forward to operational updates as you go along.

Thank you, I've learned a lot and it has strangely turned into a hobby and passion to figure out how to automate the entire property while balancing convenience with efficiency, leaning more towards convenience. In the end, I want the property to operate just like any other grid-tied property.

We NEED Pictures !!! Lots and Lots of pictures !!!

I'll post more here in coming days, as we are finishing the inside of the electrical building. I did get the old batteries removed and am getting everything straightened up out there.

Wow this system is really impressive...

I built a *much smaller* system for a family i know who lives near Tonasket, WA off grid and just wow man. Good job!
I'll be back up there working on moving the solar panels for that system in early September in fact. (they were on the roof but i want to move them to ground mounts on the hill behind their building becuase it'll be more stable in winter).

Thanks!

That's awesome! I didn't know we had locals doing the same thing! If you need any help, let me know, I'd more than happy to load up the truck and trailer with tools and lumber to help.

It's still a work in progress, balancing everything. This week we are trenching more water lines further out across the property and for irrigation. So I bounce between project after project after project.

~Moses

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

I was told that utility districts aren't fearful of solar panels, they are accepting of that technology, their real enemy is the storage of power, the evil battery bank.

They have no reason to fear current technology. It's not scalable to mass use. The one-off isolated user way up in the mountains (a remote radio site, for example) or the odd duck like you, are not even going to come remotely close to changing our current system. That's not even PeeWee Herman vs. Mike Tyson. It's more like a mosquito vs. Godzilla.

Mass storage, or the lack of it, is what makes every single "alternative" energy source a non-starter when it comes to fundamentally changing our energy systems. Whatever other arguments there may be for or against them, none of that matters even a tiny little bit. Mass storage (whether distributed or centralized) is the key. We don't have it, and there is nothing on the horizon that even looks promising.

 

[dodge man]

I have no problem with someone that wants to go off grid. I would probably hook up in most cases if its available. I hooked up to rural water even though I have a good well. What really ticks me off is when they want to force you to hook up or tax you if you don't. Pretty silly. In my area they are still pretty fair about hooking up to the grid, often very reasonable.

 

[greenmojo]

I have no problem with someone that wants to go off grid. I would probably hook up in most cases if its available. I hooked up to rural water even though I have a good well. What really ticks me off is when they want to force you to hook up or tax you if you don't. Pretty silly. In my area they are still pretty fair about hooking up to the grid, often very reasonable.

Hooking up to the grid is definitely not a bad idea. Extra power generated provides credits on your account and you have redundant sources of power.

No rural water up here. :-(

~Moses