Buying Advice Input on shopping for older mid-size tractor

[aschwerin]

I've had an 8N for years. Though its a good tractor in its own right, I'm tired of messing with it, and I really need something with more power. I bought a Ford 6600 at an auction. It was way more tractor than I needed. Sold it a few days ago and I'd like to get something that is appropriate for me.

I have a big garden. The 8N works fine, but 1st gear is too fast. I move round bales. The 8N is woefully lacking in hydraulic power and front end weight. I brush hog about 10 to 15 acres. Again, the 8N is underpowered and the tranny PTO clutch is frustrating. The 6600 was too big on my little pastures on big hillsides. I have a flail mower I use in the pastures, and the 8N bogs down. I really like the independent PTO, 16 gears, good parking brake, strong hydraulics of the 6600.

I'm looking at different makes, and narrowing down selections within each make. Looking for 35-50 HP (40 should be enough for now). Hoping to get more acreage sometime in my future. After having a diesel (the 6600), I prefer gas, just because I know how to work on a gas engine. I use very few tractor hours in a year, so engine longevity is not an issue for me.

I'm looking at older, low-cost, reliable models. Selection will depend much on availability and condition:

Massey Ferguson. 35-50. The later 135 with a Z145 engine looks good. Seems 35 is enough, at a lighter weight than a 50. I'm not sure about how I will like the 2 stage clutch.

Ford. 2000 - 4000. 2000 looks light, 4000 heavy. Maybe the 3000/3600?

Allis Chalmers D15/D17. They look like real nice tractors, and there are a few in the are for sale, but I am unfamiliar with them.

I have not attraction to JD or Farmall. I know nothing about IH or Deutz.

I would just appreciate any inputs. After the 6600 ordeal, I know I do not want to be in the business of buying and moving tractors. I'd like to get the right one, and keep it for half a lifetime.

 

[TripleR]

You might want to check with or find old threads by Soundguy, he is very knowledgeable on the older Fords. We have a NAA, 600, and 601 Powermaster, but they have their drawbacks.

 

[LD1]

I think you are on the right track with the MF and the ford 2000-4000 series. Probably two of the most popular in that size.

Personally, I'd shy away from the D15-d17. Could be wrong, but just dont see them as much. Parts, new or used, are likely more $$$ and harder to come by than the fords or masseys.

Not much weight difference between 2000,3000,4000 either. Certainly not enough to be noticeable for what you are doing

 

[rgr33]

That Massey 135 sounds like a good fit. There are a ton of them in this area, and they seem to be a reliable unit. Getting parts will be easy enough, and if you are handy with a wrench, it seems easy enough to work on.

I started out with an 8n, seemed like I used it 2 days a week and the rest of the week I tried to find out why it wouldn' start again. Diesels, not that temperamental, they are mules, gasses are more like a horse.

 

[ovrszd]

You didn't mention your budget??

 

[Creamer]

JD 1530 or 2240 would be a nice fit in this category but I do not know the IH tractors of this size.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Something like this MF135 would be a good option I think.
MASSEY-FERGUSON 135 Less than 40 HP

 

[aschwerin]

Somehow I wasn't getting notice of replies.

Thanks for the input.

ovrszd, my budget would be not spending more than a couple hundred dollars a year in repairs. I look at the initial cost as an investment and the price should just be fair to good for the model. I prefer paying for good condition - I'm not looking for a restore project.

Creamer, I will look at those JD models. I've gotten the impression that JD parts are more expensive?

 

[GManBart]

You really can't go wrong with a Massey 135 or the 2000-4000 series Fords but you have to accept that with machines that old, you're going to have to work on them with some frequency. You can get virtually any part for either of them from multiple sources, and there are so many of them out there that you're not likely to run into a problem that somebody hasn't already experienced, so that's a plus.

On the other hand, if you go a bit newer, and spend a touch more, you might get away with really nothing more than routine service, but that will likely make it a diesel since there aren't many gas tractors that new. My Massey is either a late 1999 or early 2000 production machine, I paid $7,500 for it, and all I've had to do was replace the fuel lift pump ($35) and had the steering cylinders rebuilt when they started to drip ($200). Machines like it are still really simple, and with no electronics, don't really require a diesel mechanic to keep running for many, many years.

 

[aschwerin]

I will consider that GMan. I ruled out getting a newer Kubota. I know they are popular, but I see so much more value in those good old tractors.

I don't mind doing some repairs, but its like rgr33 said; with the 8N my wife joked that every time I wanted to use it I had to fix it first.

I thought about this Ford 2000 quite a bit this morning, looks like a good clean tractor nearby for a good price at $2400. But it sounds like it has a tranny PTO, and I just can't see messing with that for the next decade or two. The wife says it is different than their 8N, but it sounds like the way my 8N works. The hubby noted that the PTO doesn't have to run for the hydraulics to run. Which is a nice, but not quite enough of an upgrade for me.

 

[motownbrowne]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like an early 4 cylinder 2000. These were pretty much the same as the hundred series Fords. Also, those tires look pretty worn out. You're looking at close to $1000 for two new rear tires. Personally, I'd love to have an old 2000 or 3000, but it'd have to be a three cylinder with power steering, live PTO and hydraulics, at least 8 forward gears, and a differential lock.

I'd rather have a $5000 tractor with these features than a $2500 tractor without them.

 

[KennyG]

Personally, I'd shy away from the D15-d17. Could be wrong, but just dont see them as much. Parts, new or used, are likely more $$$ and harder to come by than the fords or masseys.

I wouldn't worry about the AC. They were very popular, especially the D-17. It's probably a local issue based on the dealers and type of farming. Where I grew up. AC, IH and JD dominated. The few Fords around were considered curiosities and usually used as utility tractors more than real field work. Massey tractors were rare also although the combines were well thought of.

 

[NC419N]

I have owned one one of those 4 cylinder 2000's and they are an improvement over the 8N But I would look to the "newer" 2000-3000 even better a 4000 if you want a Ford series and even some of those may need some repairs. The 135 Massey's are great little tractors as well. I have stayed away from the Green one's mainly because of parts pricing and the dealer network in my area. I would for sure be parking the 8N and or restore it for parade use. Just my .02

 

[ovrszd]

ovrszd, my budget would be not spending more than a couple hundred dollars a year in repairs. I look at the initial cost as an investment and the price should just be fair to good for the model. I prefer paying for good condition - I'm not looking for a restore project.

Then buy new and the manufacturer, thru the warranty period, will keep you under a couple hundred dollars a year in repairs. Any other choice and that won't happen.

 

[ovrszd]

You still haven't stated a budget?? I'm not asking to get in your business. Just asking to clarify how much money you are willing to spend for a tractor. None of the members following this thread can help you until you clarify that. :confused3:

 

[GManBart]

Some machines in your general area that fit what you've described:

Ford tractor model 3000
Ford 2000 series Tractor 1969
~1971 Ford 3000 Tractor - 47hp
3000 Ford Tractor

If you're willing to consider a modern tractor with a non-electronics diesel engine, something like this is likely to be less trouble because it's 20 years newer, still easy to work on if necessary, plenty of sources for parts, comes with some implements, and still a reasonable price. A bonus is that it's safer because it has a ROPS (Rollover Protection Structure).

1996 MASSEY FERGUSON 231

 

[aschwerin]

I need to get notifications turned on.

motownbrowne, I see your point (except I think 6 spd would be enough for me, and I'm not sure I need power steering without a bucket). I do need to get what I need when I spend my money.

NC419N, what year is good for a "newer" 2000 or 3000? I will have to check serial/model numbers to learn the year, yes?

ovrszd, I could be mistaken - and would like to know if I am - but there must be a sticker price for that "new tractor smell". A good investment shouldn't be losing value after being used a couple times. Anecdotally, I found a 2014 Kubota B2650 on craigslist just now, $16,900 with 40 hours on the tractor. Looking on the Kubota website, this tractor new is going to cost about $22,000. That fella paid $2,500/yr or $127.50/hr to use his tractor. If he sells it at the price he wants. So, a napkin calculation tells me a tractor is worth about $1,500/yr to me. If it costs me more than that, I shouldn't buy one. I figure I will use it about 40 hours a year. However, there is no reason for me to spend my maximum cost. Why would I want to spend $18,000 when a $4,000 machine will do all my work for me? And how long can that $18,000 machine maintain its value when a $4,000 machine can do its work? It has to depreciate down to $4,000 eventually, whereas the $4,000 machine could still be worth $4,000 10 years later. Assuming we are comparing apples to apples. Besides the depreciation, its going to come to repairs (there are no 20 year warranties): number of parts in the machine, reliability of the parts, cost of parts, and ability to fix the machine myself (I'm four times cheaper than a mechanic). The 8N wasn't costing me more than a hundred $ in repairs each year. Parts are just cheap.

 

[aschwerin]

GManBart, I like that first 3000 for $4,000.
I had emailed the fella about that 2000 to see about the clutch setup and he hasn't responded yet.
I'm sure that other 3000 is good too, but is it just me who is turned off by an old tractor coated in new paint?
The MF 231 is interesting. I like that I can still work on it. It doesn't have the reputation the others have - or not that I know of? I can do some searches...

 

[jenkinsph]

aschwerin,
Not sure what you mean by "It doesn't have the reputation the others have" ?
Nothing wrong with a Massey Ferguson and while it is a 1996 if in good condition it is definitely worth a look.

 

[aschwerin]

"The 231 is the late 1980s - early 1990s version of the 135, itself one of the most highly-regarded small utility tractors of all time. By todays standards the 231 is a rugged and economical if rather basic work horse. The versions with the three cylinder Perkins AD152 diesel are the most desireable and most common. This engine is very highly regarded and quite economical to operate. Issues to consider vis a vis more modern machines are dry drum brakes and fully unsynchronized transmission.

SDT"