More Newbie questions

   / More Newbie questions #1  

Digger 258

Bronze Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
92
Location
Northern VA
Tractor
Bolens / Iseki G152 & PT-425
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So I finally have had the time off of work to take inventory of my new (used) PT-425 with the Kohler 25 engine. I'm pretty pleased with her, and have slowly started going through her unencumbered by any kind of manual or direction, so I have a few questions. I can tell that the machine and attachments have sat outside for a long time, with little if any use, so I greased all of the zerks I could find (2 on the lift arm and 2 at the pivot point) and have done some cleaning. She's got 650 hours showing on the ticker. The parking brake cables are broken and disconnected as you can see in the pic, but I'll get to that later. I am getting ready to do 50 hour maintenance, which I believe involves changing the oil and the hydraulic filter. Here are my questions that I cannot seem to find answers to:

1) What oil / filter on the Kohler do I use? How much oil does it take?

2) How do I check the hydraulic oil level? The tank seems to be about 1/3 full, with the fluid just touching the dipstick. Is that right?

3) Do I need to change all of the hydro fluid or just screw on a new filter? Do I need to bleed any air? I don't have any experience with hydraulics yet.

Any maintenance you could suggest before I put this thing to hard work would be much appreciated. I'm excited to finally have joined the PT owners ranks and I hope my first set of pics upload.

Regards,
Dan
 
   / More Newbie questions #2  
I am not familiar with your particular machine but would recommend replacing all fluids and filters including the fuel. Load test the battery. Grease all zerks.
Start with a clean slate and you will know what fluid is in there and when it was installed.

A manual will be very helpful. Some hydraulics are self bleeding and others are not.

Good luck with your new machine.
 
   / More Newbie questions #3  
I have a Kohler command but not on a 425... The short version of the 3600 fram is a 3614,otherwise its the same. I use wix 51348.

Dave responded the exact way I would, If you don't know the history, start over.

I would pull up the Hydraulic oil, make sure it looks clean and brand new. (meaning using a turkey baster and suck some out), put it in a jar and let it sit. IMO the Hydraulic oil (which I think on yours is just engine oil like everyone else 10-40) has a fairly long lifespan if you keep it clean and water free.

All filters should be replaced, and I would for sure replace the engine oil.

If it were mine, I would do a DEEP clean on the oil cooler, I would go as far as removing it, pressure washing it so you can see through it, and then run some serios solvent through the inside. Make sure you clean and dry before returning to your system.

But in the end the machines are pretty low maintenance. Not too many moving parts. Expect and look for oil leaks, seems to be a very common feature on these machines.
 
   / More Newbie questions #4  
...so I greased all of the zerks I could find (2 on the lift arm and 2 at the pivot point) and have done some cleaning.

The zerk underneath the vehicle on the joint between the two halves is very important... make sure you get that too. Also get the zerk on the top of the central pivot. Also, there is a threaded hole for a zerk fitting underneath the center console plate. Have to take it off, and screw in a zerk to get that one. It is for the front of the connecting rod for the top of the central pivot.

Go take a look at the "8 hr maintenance" page on mossroad's site, and look at pictures 14 &15. Unfortunately, no picture of the "hidden zerk" that I could find.

PT425 Home Page

While you are at it, buy an enormous wrench (1 13/16") to tighten the "jesus nut" on the bottom of the central pivot.
 
   / More Newbie questions #6  
So I finally have had the time off of work to take inventory of my new (used) PT-425 with the Kohler 25 engine. I'm pretty pleased with her, and have slowly started going through her unencumbered by any kind of manual or direction, so I have a few questions. I can tell that the machine and attachments have sat outside for a long time, with little if any use, so I greased all of the zerks I could find (2 on the lift arm and 2 at the pivot point) and have done some cleaning. She's got 650 hours showing on the ticker. The parking brake cables are broken and disconnected as you can see in the pic, but I'll get to that later. I am getting ready to do 50 hour maintenance, which I believe involves changing the oil and the hydraulic filter. Here are my questions that I cannot seem to find answers to:

1) What oil / filter on the Kohler do I use? How much oil does it take?

2) How do I check the hydraulic oil level? The tank seems to be about 1/3 full, with the fluid just touching the dipstick. Is that right?

3) Do I need to change all of the hydro fluid or just screw on a new filter? Do I need to bleed any air? I don't have any experience with hydraulics yet.

Any maintenance you could suggest before I put this thing to hard work would be much appreciated. I'm excited to finally have joined the PT owners ranks and I hope my first set of pics upload.

Regards,
Dan

Find a good, local, lawn and garden or small engine shop in your town and ask for a Kohler command pro CH25s (if that is indeed your engine model) oil filter. I think there's a long and short version, so measure your's first. Start the engine to get the oil warm. Only takes a minute or two. Shut off the engine. Locate the engine oil drain plug under the engine. A socket on and extension through the bottom of the tub should work. Mine has a 90 degree elbow so it drains out the side of the engine, then strait down through a hole in the tub. Put a wide, shallow pan under the engine. Remove the drain plug and drain into the pan. Let it drain for 10 minutes or so. You'll know is empty when its empty. Replace the drain cap. Remove the oil filter. Put some paper towels down first. It will spill. Oil the gasket on the new filter. Since the filter is at a horizontal orientation, you can't fill it before installing. Install the oil filter. Now its time to fill the engine with oil. The amount is in the PDF manual that I linked to in the previous post. I think its two quarts-ish, so buy three quarts of Mobile 1 5w30 or whatever weight the manual calls for. Add a quart and check the stick. If nothing shows, add 1/4 quart at a time and keep checking the stick until it gets to the full line. Start the engine for 30 seconds and shut it off. Wait a minute and check the level again. It should have gone down a bit due to the filter filling, but not much. Top off and check again every time before you operate the machine. Change the engine oil and filter every 50 hours of operation, or once per year, whichever comes first.

To check the hydraulic oil, just clean the cap and area around it first, then remove the cap and read the stick. I keep mine about an inch up from the bottom of the stick. It should be relatively clear. I've never changed mine in 14 years with about 600 hours. I do add a quart every 50 hours when I change my hydraulic filter. I've been adding 10w40 mobile one each time. So, about 12 quarts of that over the years.

YOU MUST BLEED THE HYDRAULICS EVERY TIME YOU CHANGE THE HYDRAULIC FILTER or the tram pump may be damaged. It sounds horrible, but its not very hard at all. You should have gotten a hydraulic hose about 2-3 feet long with a fitting on one end and just cut off on the other end. That's a bleed hose. If you didn't get one, find the bleed port on the tram pump, remove the cap from the bleed port and take the cap to a NAPA store or a hydraulic shop and tell them you need a 3' hose with a female connection the same size as this cap on one end of the hose only.

First, clean the area around the hydraulic filter.
Second, just crack the filter loose and then tighten it back up by hand.
Third, put some paper towels on the bottom of the tub under the filter.
Fourth, take a quart zip-lock bag, slip it under the filter and then over the filter, so that the filter is hanging in the bag.
Next, squeeze the zip-lock bag with your hands against the filter and loosen it. Carefully unscrew the filter and lift it out. Keep it horizontal and only a small amount of oil should spill into the bag. Nice and neat! :thumbsup:

Then take your new filter (probably should have been the first step to buy a new filter), wipe some clean oil onto the seal and replace the filter. Screw it on hand tight as tight as you can. That should be enough. Maybe a quarter turn with a filter wrench, but I've never done that.

Now locate the bleed port on the tram pump. This can vary depending on year of machine.
Remove the port cap.
Attach the bleed hose fitting to the port.
Remove the hydraulic tank filler/dipstick cap.
Insert the cut off end of the hose into the hydraulic tank well into the fluid.
Remove the spark plug wires from both spark plugs.
Crank the engine for 10 seconds. You'll see air bubbles coming up from the hose in the hydraulic tank.
Stop cranking. Let the starter rest for a few minutes.
Repeat.
Do this until no more air bubbles come up in the tank.
Remove the bleed hose from the tank and put the filler cap back on.
Remove the bleed hose from the port on the tram pump and put the cap back on.
Re-install the spark plug wires.
Fire up and drive around a few minutes. You should be good to go.
 
   / More Newbie questions #7  
The tractor needs to be lubed every 8 hours of operation.

The lube points I remember are grease fittings and the ball joints on all ends of all hydraulic cylinders and the tram peddle linkage (depending on year of the machine).

There's two huge ball joints in the center of the tractor. The lower one has a grease zerk right in the center of it underneath the machine, so you have to get it from the bottom. PRO TIP: Turn the tractor all the way to one side and shut it off. This will give you way more access to the center of the machine from one side. The upper ball joint has the grease zerk on top. Lift the seat to get access to that.

Remove the center tunnel top and side panels in the foot-wells. There's a grease zerk on the front of the tie rod end under that top cover, right about under the steering wheel pedestal. On mine, there's also three grease zerks on the tram pedal linkage. Mine has a cable operated tram pedal. Some have a hydraulically operated tram pedal. I can't tell from your pictures. Anyhow, mine has three zerks.

There's zerks on the center cross tube on the FEL arms. That's very important. This has failed on early units, so keep that greased!

For the ball joint ends of the hydraulic tubes, I use a white lithium spray can grease. Wipe off the balls with paper towels and spray them down well with the grease. Use a paper towel behind the joint as you spray to contain overspray.

That's about all I can remember for now. :laughing:
 
   / More Newbie questions
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Thanks for the detail MR! I really appreciate the time it took you to lay that out for me. I have the oil changed in the engine, and I'm starting on the hydro filter and zerks that I missed. It's a good thing I didn't throw out that "broken hydro hose" that was really the bleed hose all along. I thought I'd be able to find a manual for the PT, but the Kohler manual you linked is what I needed all along to make sure I understand the engine. PT hasn't answered my email looking for a manual, but I don't even know what year the machine is . . .

Also, the two ply turf tires state not to exceed 10 lbs PSI. Is that what everyone else fills their tires to?

I pulled the battery tray out since it was very rusty - wire brushed it, scraped it and painted it. I know it won't affect performance, but it sure looks purty now.

I'm sure I'll run into more questions - Thanks for the answers so far!

Dan
 
   / More Newbie questions #10  
Tazwell does not know how to use the internet. You should call them, you will not hear from them via email.
 
   / More Newbie questions #11  
Moss road suggested using 5w30 Mobil 1,I think you should use a minimum of 10w30 as the manual suggests for year round use and I'd skip Mobil 1 it's overpriced and no better than anyone else's full synthetic oil,I use Napa brand,Citgo,or Shell all about 5.00 a gallon cheaper than Mobil 1,and Use 5w40 diesel full synthetic oil in mine it's a much tougher oil with a better additive and antifoam agents ,and the same price as the gasoline only rated oil..Shell Rotella T6,Chevron Delo Synthetic, all cheaper and very good choices
 
   / More Newbie questions #12  
I run my turf tires at 10psi (or less, depending on how many leaks!). :laughing:
 
   / More Newbie questions #13  
The reason I run 5w30 in the engine is because I operate well below zero in the winter some years. That's what the manual calls for at those temps. 5w30 is better for cold starting than 10w30 (according to everything I've read, I'm not an oil guy in any sense). And from everything else I've read, once the engine warms up, 30 is 30. 10w30 will give you better protection during warm starts, also according to everything I've read. Some day, when the engine finally conks out, I'll tear it down and to a look-see on the wear and tear and see if I have any regrets. ;)
 
   / More Newbie questions #14  
My 2001 PT425 came with a 30+ page owner's manual. Its got my warranty info, attachments and my tractor and attachment serial numbers, limited operation instructions, limited service instructions, limited towing instructions (DON'T TOW IT without opening the tow valve, and move it slowly when you do), limited maintenance instructions, lubrication points (point B does not exist, thanks Terry), filter instructions, and many pages of parts with good photos and identification (best part of the manual), hydraulic schematics and electrical schematics. I can figure pretty much anything out with this manual. I purchased from Kohler an owners manual, parts manual and service manual for the engine right after I bought the tractor.
 
   / More Newbie questions
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Thanks guys. I have the engine oil changed, new hydro filter, topped off hydro fluid, new fuel filter, and gave her a good cleaning. Cleaned out the air cleaner, but still need to find a new one of those (didn't look too bad). Should be getting some good use out of her this weekend moving some heavy things around the property. I did notice that she starts much better in the cold after changing the oil . . . Of course, the only time I NEED her to start is the few times we get snowed in. Now for some discovery learning, where I am sure to have many more questions.
 
   / More Newbie questions #16  
So I will disagree a bit with RD. In my opinion, and you should take it with a grain of salt, I would switch my Hydraulic to 0-40 synthetic if I lived in a cold weather environment (I do not, freezing weather is only 5 days a year and only just freezing in my area). I would also change my engine oil out to the same as well.

The first number, the 0W or 10W is a number that represents viscosity in cold weather. If you live in Pheonix, you run 20 -50 as it holds up better to high temp. So on your machine, the last number, the 40, is what is important to the system, it is the viscosity when the oil is hot. The zero says the oil is pretty fluid when it is cold (not thickening up).

I feel legally that as long as you are putting in the correct top end numberd oil, you are not breaking the warranty.

PT is fantastic because it is a relatively simple machine. You look at GEHL or some of the other slope machines and they are fancy as all heck, but there is a lot more to fail. The engine on a 425 is basically a lawn mower engine, IMO it was never designed to turn over a pump in the cold. You find this engine on mowers that are not engaged to anything until you tell them to be. PT should have probably put a clutch on the system, but it would only be another point to break, and add a myriad of design issues that would escalate the price. What I am getting at is that the thinner cold oil would be easier on the system, and no reason a zero weight would be an issue.

As for Synthetic, I personally feel (and have nothing to corroborate this with) that the oil runs thinner, has less friction, which will help in cold weather starting as well as keeping your engine cooler.

As for brands, people say Rotella is the best, people say Mobile One. I tink at the end of the day you have to do some serious research (there are good places on the net to do this) but that there are very good synthetics that cost much less than the Rotella Mobile one and do the same job.

For my machine, it leaks oil like it is going out of style. My engine I run Mobile One. My Hydraulice I use the cheapest NAPA / Walmart / Costco oil I can find as it tends to get sprayed all over the woods in short order.

Motor Oil Viscosity Grades Explained in Layman's Terms
 
   / More Newbie questions #17  
Funny thing about the hydraulic oil... the manual says to use 5W30 but I think there's a sticker on the tank that says 10W40 or something like that. Too dark, windy and raining to go out and verify right now... :rolleyes:
 
   / More Newbie questions #18  
I have to tighten my hydraulic filter close to the crushing point with a strap wrench in order to stop it from sucking in air - it has always been this way. That is the main reason I hate doing the 50 hour maintenance.

Ken
 
   / More Newbie questions #19  
The sticker on my tub says 10W40. This has been covered before, but there is very little difference between 5W and 10W oil when cold.

Ken's point about getting the suction filter tight is really important. An air bleed at the suction filter will create foam throughout your system with decreased performance and wear damage due to poor lubrication. It is important to watch the bleed line as you get air out of the charge pump to make sure that you don't see little bubbles foaming through.

FWIW...

All the best,

Peter
 
   / More Newbie questions
  • Thread Starter
#20  
I tightened the filter by hand as far as I could get it - maybe I'll take a strap wrench to it, getting it extra snug. Now that I think of it, the old filter was on very tight. How could I tell if I was leaking air around the filter? Will the hydraulics become weaker? I definitely don't want to burn up a pump . . .
 

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