rsallen
Platinum Member
Nah, if you lived in the good old USA you'd be talking to a personal injury lawyer because you lost your powers of esp (extra sensory perception) after getting a shock while using the machine.......and probably win! LOL
Got an interesting letter from the RCMP today
- Thread starter rjmack
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Nah, if you lived in the good old USA you'd be talking to a personal injury lawyer because you lost your powers of esp (extra sensory perception) after getting a shock while using the machine.......and probably win! LOL
lilranch2001
Super Member
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Your inability to read and comprehend, again amazes me
You are so filled with anger and hate you cannot see anything else
FredH
Platinum Member
You , Scooby074 , Still Did Not answer my Question about your Statement , " Miller only recently changed the labels on machines with less than 95% USA made content to comply with federal labeling rules. Im not real happy about it, but I'd sooner see Assembled in USA of US and Foreign components then Assembled in china with chinese components. " . Foreign - What Exactly does that Mean ? Or more Importantly " Were " is " Foreign " ?
Just Again , Wondering Why you only choose to answer certain statements and Also wondering Why the OP even bothered bringing this Here . I am Thinking , He is trying to Blackmail Everlast by running a smear campaign . They offered a deal , he refused , wants full refund . Fine . Go to court and deal with the results . Seems there are more Happy Customers of Everlast than there are non-happy , thus if I was in the market for any products of that nature , I would look at the Everlast Brand . :thumbsup: :2cents:
Fred H.
Just Again , Wondering Why you only choose to answer certain statements and Also wondering Why the OP even bothered bringing this Here . I am Thinking , He is trying to Blackmail Everlast by running a smear campaign . They offered a deal , he refused , wants full refund . Fine . Go to court and deal with the results . Seems there are more Happy Customers of Everlast than there are non-happy , thus if I was in the market for any products of that nature , I would look at the Everlast Brand . :thumbsup: :2cents:
Fred H.
Arc weld
Veteran Member
Man, did this thread ever take off. As far as I know CSA is a private non-profit organization but has some of the highest standards in the world. I wouldn't doubt that it can be expensive to have products tested and/or approved. I think the whole issue is over putting a fraudulent CSA sticker on machines that were never tested. This is and should be a big deal. I take that's why the RCMP is investigating. A welder is an electrical appliance, so therefore, should have to meet some safety standards. If the issue with the welders was just a plug, put an approved plug on it. There are thousands of machines that use electrical plugs. If it's more than that, Everlast Canada should just offer a full refund or an approved replacement product. There may be nothing wrong with the machines or they would meet standards and could be sold in other countries.
Although it's not electrical, the best comparison I can think of is cabs and roll bars for tractors and other equipment. Most will have a certification tag riveted on with the test dates, registration number etc. To put a false certification tag on is a BIG no no with serious consequences. There are however many cabs and/or roll bars that have a tag stating; This ROPS/FOPS is designed for roll over protection but is not tested. Testing on these is very expensive but just because one isn't tested, doesn't mean it wouldn't pass certification. It could be stronger than tested ones. Maybe this Everlast issue is along the same lines? If you found the perfect tractor you wanted at a good price, would you turn it down because the cab ROPS wasn't certified? Or would look at the construction and make an educated guess that it in the event of a roll over, it looks beefy enough to protect you? 99.9% of the time you'd never have to worry about a roll over but would be more concerned with how the machine worked for what it was bought for.
The RCMP telling you to throw a machine away just because of a wrongly placed sticker is ridiculous. If they had proof of a problem(s) or even a potential problem, then the manufacturer should take responsibility. If it's just a plug issue, should be real easy to resolve. If there's a recall on a vehicle, they don't tell you to throw your car away. A lot of people don't even bother taking a vehicle in for a minor recall. If you buy a used vehicle, chances are you won't even know if it's had any recall notices. Find out what the real issue is with the Everlast Canada machines and base what you do on that. If you bought it to weld and someone tells you not to use it because it has a wrong sticker isn't enough for me not to use it. If you had to go by what a sticker or label says, you might as well throw all your Lincoln and Miller welders out too. No two will read the same on the amperage dial.
Although it's not electrical, the best comparison I can think of is cabs and roll bars for tractors and other equipment. Most will have a certification tag riveted on with the test dates, registration number etc. To put a false certification tag on is a BIG no no with serious consequences. There are however many cabs and/or roll bars that have a tag stating; This ROPS/FOPS is designed for roll over protection but is not tested. Testing on these is very expensive but just because one isn't tested, doesn't mean it wouldn't pass certification. It could be stronger than tested ones. Maybe this Everlast issue is along the same lines? If you found the perfect tractor you wanted at a good price, would you turn it down because the cab ROPS wasn't certified? Or would look at the construction and make an educated guess that it in the event of a roll over, it looks beefy enough to protect you? 99.9% of the time you'd never have to worry about a roll over but would be more concerned with how the machine worked for what it was bought for.
The RCMP telling you to throw a machine away just because of a wrongly placed sticker is ridiculous. If they had proof of a problem(s) or even a potential problem, then the manufacturer should take responsibility. If it's just a plug issue, should be real easy to resolve. If there's a recall on a vehicle, they don't tell you to throw your car away. A lot of people don't even bother taking a vehicle in for a minor recall. If you buy a used vehicle, chances are you won't even know if it's had any recall notices. Find out what the real issue is with the Everlast Canada machines and base what you do on that. If you bought it to weld and someone tells you not to use it because it has a wrong sticker isn't enough for me not to use it. If you had to go by what a sticker or label says, you might as well throw all your Lincoln and Miller welders out too. No two will read the same on the amperage dial.
orezok
Elite Member
Just wondering if the stickers were actually counterfeit or were they "real" stickers wrongly applied. Sometimes a word is used in a communication that is ambiguous that can completely change the meaning of the context. Until this fact is determined, the meaning is unclear.
Second, I have run into similar situations here in the US in construction where while built to "code", a Fire Marshall would not accept the structure. Neither the Building Inspector nor Fire Marshall would back down and agree to some type of compromise. It was not resolved until taken to a higher level.
These units may have been built to CE standards, but did not meet CSA standards. That does not mean that the units might be "unsafe", but more an interpretation by some agency of what is safe. If a different color wire was used on the umbilical and a plug was wired at the factory, that would be safe, but if the plug is user installed, it might not be safe.
Second, I have run into similar situations here in the US in construction where while built to "code", a Fire Marshall would not accept the structure. Neither the Building Inspector nor Fire Marshall would back down and agree to some type of compromise. It was not resolved until taken to a higher level.
These units may have been built to CE standards, but did not meet CSA standards. That does not mean that the units might be "unsafe", but more an interpretation by some agency of what is safe. If a different color wire was used on the umbilical and a plug was wired at the factory, that would be safe, but if the plug is user installed, it might not be safe.
Fred, why don't you and Lilranch, and some others, just chill and let this play out. All this nonsensical bickering is liable to get this thread shut down. I would like to see how this is going to be resolved between Everlast and RCMP/ CSA.
If I got a letter from a federal law enforcement agency, and was told of possible safety concerns of a product I had bought that drastically changed the value and usability of it, I would want answers too.
I'm not taking sides, but I do want to see this play out. This is an interesting thread and I would like to see both sides of this particular issue without all the bickering.
Arc weld, good post.
You summed it up nicely. :thumbsup:
Just guessing here, but I think the reason the plug is left off is that the cable has 4 wires instead of 3 in the event the owner wants to hook it up to 3-phase.
My PA300 had a plainly marked red wire for that purpose, and said to just cut it off or tape it back if you weren't going to use it for 3-phase. I did that and just used the standard NEMA 6-50 plug for mine.
You summed it up nicely. :thumbsup:
Just guessing here, but I think the reason the plug is left off is that the cable has 4 wires instead of 3 in the event the owner wants to hook it up to 3-phase.
My PA300 had a plainly marked red wire for that purpose, and said to just cut it off or tape it back if you weren't going to use it for 3-phase. I did that and just used the standard NEMA 6-50 plug for mine.
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newbury
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<snip>
The RCMP telling you to throw a machine away just because of a wrongly placed sticker is ridiculous. If they had proof of a problem(s) or even a potential problem, then the manufacturer should take responsibility. If it's just a plug issue, should be real easy to resolve. If there's a recall on a vehicle, they don't tell you to throw your car away. A lot of people don't even bother taking a vehicle in for a minor recall. If you buy a used vehicle, chances are you won't even know if it's had any recall notices. Find out what the real issue is with the Everlast Canada machines and base what you do on that. If you bought it to weld and someone tells you not to use it because it has a wrong sticker isn't enough for me not to use it. If you had to go by what a sticker or label says, you might as well throw all your Lincoln and Miller welders out too. No two will read the same on the amperage dial.
I think one of the complainers mentioned that it would be illegal to use a non-certified welder in a business capacity.
From my experience, if you are in possession of a counterfeit item, it is seized and you are sol. I'm surprised this was not the case with these welders. There is absolutely no way they could be re-sold with the known history of them. Therefor they are worthless.
An expensive lesson for all involved and Everlast should be recovering these units and issuing a full refund. How they were not fined over this is beyond me.
An expensive lesson for all involved and Everlast should be recovering these units and issuing a full refund. How they were not fined over this is beyond me.
OP
rjmack
Platinum Member
Add to that the fact that if my house or shop burns to the ground and the fire inspector/investigator finds a non-compliant Everlast welder in the ruins, I am probably out of luck on the insurance.
I think that may have something to do with the police advising me to be rid of the thing asap.
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