l4600 hst vs gear

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I've bought 17 Kubotas. One of them was a B2320 geared to save $1000. Hated it and got rid of it pretty quick. If I only did 2 mile long rows of farm work then it may not have been so bad.........no, I still wouldn't like it after using HSTs for the past 11 years and would never consider a geared tractor with a FEL. Logically on HST, you push the pedal forward or back with your foot while one hand is on the steering wheel and the other hand is on the FEL bucket control lever, it's a smooth almost non stop flow with a HST where geared is go, stop, change gear, go, stop, change gear, no way for me to ever do geared again in a tractor.
As others have told you, the single pedal becomes natural after short time using it and you don't need brakes on a HST, let off the pedal and it stops. Maybe stopped on a steep hill but even then the foot pedal will keep it stopped in place.
Resale of geared also doesn't bring the money and delays the sale since most buyers want HST and usually the used gear shopper wants cheaper since they sell for cheaper and they are the hunter for cheaper.
Owned sports cars most of my life, several of them, and I can use a 4, 5 or 6 speed shifter in a high performance car but a tractor ain't a sports car.

 

[nybirdman]

I just plowed ten acres with my L4240 HST and an old Dearborn two bottom with no trips.Most will tell you that a geared tractor is best for field work....in my case in the rocky North-East and no trips on the plows the HST works perfect.I can stop instantly if I feel a rock.For all of my other uses;roto-tiller,box blade ,snow plow ,loader work HST can't be beat,IMHO.We do own a L3000DT that's geared and open station and it is our "woods" tractor.

 

[buck boost]

The wonderful gear vs hst debate. Hst is the only way to go (IMHO) for loader work. Many loaders on compact agricultural tractors aren't extremely powerful like on industrial rated skip loaders/loader backhoes.

Here is a good real world example:

Let us say you are bucking a pile stone, gravel, dirt ect. On a gear tractor, as you buck the pile you are "stuck" in the gear you choose to buck the pile in. No big deal. As bucking, two things happen generally, wheel slippage or engine slow down. R4 tires wear out faster or HP goes down as engine slows. No one wants to buy new tires, or as the engine loads and slows forward propulsion slows and hydraulic power goes down as the operator tries to achieve a heaping or near heaping bucket. Then clutching is necessary when under significant engine load, which equals wear. Not to mention, to buck a "perfect bucket" at a given speed, unlike a professional operator isn't always the easiest. Then transport, dump/spread level, rinse repeat.

HST loader work is much more forgiving, for the tractor and the operator. The tractor approaches the pile (assuming in the correct gear range e.g. low or med) wheel speed is infinitely adjustable for bucket adjustment, bucket begins to fill (lift and curl)as the wheel speed slows by control of the operator to eliminate wheel slippage. While the wheel speed goes down, engine speed remains constant to keep engine speed and HP up (hydraulic power). The wheel speed can easily be controlled from an inch a minute to super fast based on conditions and operator skill to keep jerking, slamming, lugging and equipment wear down to a minimal.

Another factor to consider is loader hydraulic strength. A gear machine as bucking a pile has a fixed "feed rate". The only way to slow down further is clutch slippage which equals bad. Compact tractor loaders have to overcome the push of the tractor and the lifting of the boom/curl in the buck process. If loader hydraulics are sized minimally but adequate for the machine size (on paper), gear drive may struggle depending on operator skill, material trying to buck, bucket size ect. A hst has the ability to reduce forward speed (push) and provide lift and curl with just enough force/push to fill the bucket. No clutch wear, less loader wear, less tire wear, (IMHO) much easier to operate (as I am not a professional operator) no engine lugging, ect.


Either transmission work. With a skilled operator, either can be used with great effectiveness. For most uses of a compact tractor, with most commonly used implements, HST makes the most sense to me. I can't see the advantage of gear trans because I don't pull disc or a plow exclusively. And from what I can tell, most here don't either. Not that that makes one trans better than another, it is just which trans is right for what the needs of the tractor are.

 

[newbury]

I've got both.

I don't PLAN on doing a lot of loader work with the M4700 (geared), more picking up logs and moving them thru the woods to my portable sawmill. But for $11.5K and 50HP, with new rears, FEL, canopy, and dual rear remotes I was willing to go old-school geared. Since I grew up on standard shift vehicles the new fangled synchronized transmission which eliminated double clutching was quite a step forward.

In comparison my B7610 (HST) is a sportscar to zip around in and I do like the HST, but I can't carry a 1 ton log on the FEL.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I've got both.


In comparison my B7610 (HST) is a sportscar to zip around in and I do like the HST, but I can't carry a 1 ton log on the FEL.

You still can't carry a one ton log on the FEL even if it were gear drive. So, trans has nothing to do with it, it's the capability of the machine in total.

 

[newbury]

You still can't carry a one ton log on the FEL even if it were gear drive. So, trans has nothing to do with it, it's the capability of the machine in total.

In comparison to my M4700 which CAN carry a ton on the front.

Apparently I wasn't clear enough. In my many month search for a larger tractor I had set FEL, 4WD (Mfwd), and HP as most important. In the used tractor market HST added a significant premium, partially because I didn't find many 20yr old moderate hour 50HP tractors with HST.

I view it as being similar to my diesel highway transportation - I've an F350 dually with a payload of 4K and a trailer that I can run all day hauling 12K, big, fairly slow only getting 11mpg. I've my VW TDI Sportwagen that I'm doing good to get 1,000 lbs in the payload, but it zips around and gets 42mpg.

In the OP's case HST for an L4600 seems worth the $$, but as you get bigger in the Kubota line HST goes away. My next dream tractor is an M8560, and that only comes in 8 or 12 speed shuttle, so far.

 

[Citydude]

While shopping around for a tractor that fit my budget (1st priority) and mowing needs ( 2nd priority) I ended up with a gear drive. I know it's going to be a pain to operate and I'm not looking forward to the old clutch, but in reality, the HST models added another three payments to my business plan. As a former businessman, I used to tell my staff " why would we buy a Maserati when a Toyota will do the job?" Now I have to walk the talk...

 

[C4Ranch]

IMO, HST makes things a lot easier for the operator:
- FEL work, as already mentioned
- fork work, slow minor adjustments as I pick up pallets
- backing up to 3pt implements, allows me to quickly adjust minor distances/ angles without playing "the clutch hoedown"
- easily backup/ move forward to change my angle of approach for my SSQA when switching between loader and forks
- with auto throttle advance, I can adjust my PHD speed with my foot while lifting and lowering my auger bit while looking backwards
- infinite speed adjustment allows my to creep into my barn move around and pick up a pallet easily
- adjust radio station, drink a cup of coffee, adjust 3 pt or work rear hydraulics while always keeping one hand on the steering wheel while changing the speed at the same time

There are many many times I'm moving my FEL/Box Blade while adjusting my rate of speed and Turing all at the same time.

YMMV, those are my experiences.

J

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

While shopping around for a tractor that fit my budget (1st priority) and mowing needs ( 2nd priority) I ended up with a gear drive. I know it's going to be a pain to operate and I'm not looking forward to the old clutch, but in reality, the HST models added another three payments to my business plan. As a former businessman, I used to tell my staff " why would we buy a Maserati when a Toyota will do the job?" Now I have to walk the talk...

Your Maserati vs Toyota is great for a business example. If the job required speed as a primary factor then a smart business man would buy the Maserati. Well, not a Maserati but a more reliable fast car.:laughing: Over the years I've bought some things to save money and ended up regretting it because often times the additional cost has been a time saver, which to me has always been worth something as well as more maintenance free, more durable for longer life and sometimes safer for me to have a longer life. I have to fight myself to pay the extra dollars on most purchases but in the long run quality counts and convenience is becoming more valuable to me.

 

[RoMad]

I have a geared L2900 and I do a lot of loader work with it. We clean out animal pens, spread lots of mulch, carry and pile up brush and cut trees etc. My last tractor, a kioti CK 20, was also geared. I do have a hydro kubota TG 1860 garden tractor / mower. I am sure if my tractor was a hydro i would like it too, but I can''t really say it is hard to use the loader with the clutch / shuttle. When I go into a pile I am usually in low range and am usally at about 2500 rpms using my foot throttle. As my bucket fills up and tires start to spin I curl the buckt, let off the throttle, push in the clutch, and pull the column lever to reverse all in one move and am on my way. What I like about the gear is that I only have the throttle at 2500 as i am "hitting" the pile. Once the bucket is full I use much less throttle and I let off the thottle the tractor is much quieter. If I am travelling very far I will go from low to high range and then using the foot throttle travel at about 1500 rpms. To me where the HST would shine is in mowing. With my geared tractor when I mow in just the right gear, it is hard to slow down to go around a corner when you have to keep the rpms up for the bush hog. I have a renter who loves to mow and is very careful with my tractor, so he does almost all of my mowing for me. He says it is like therapy for him and I don't like to mow so we are both happy. For all of you HST users, when doing loader work do you always have to keep your rpms up, even if just travelling?