did I break anything?

[whynot162]

So I got this back together after changing the liners and the piston rings.
now when it fires I get smoke out of the exhaust, and intake both. I did have the head machined.

So I am going to try and find a spec on the valve clearance, and do that, what are the chances I bent a valve?
This is the Rhino with a 295 engine.
Thanks
Doug

 

[Rich Waugh]

If you hit a valve with a piston, you'd know it - the noise is heart-stopping. Check you valve lash and get it set correctly.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Yep, what Rich said. I'm surprised it started at all.
Didn't the machine shop where you had the head re-surfaced tell you to back off the valve lash?
As a starter, use .014" for intake, and .016 for exhaust. That will do until you find the correct spec.
Might be a little clickety but that's ok.

 

[whynot162]

OK, I got it, but very hard to get started, been pulling it. Then found the return line on the top of the injectors not connected would that cause it to suck air?
All of the starting issues I now have a bad starter now, so on my next day off I will have to see if it will start easier. When it was running it sounded better than it has since I have owned it. Maybe I am on the downhill side of all these issues. And can have a tractor that starts and runs well.
Thanks for all the help... again

 

[whynot162]

ok, I got the new starter on, and it spins fast with a charged battery. But it still will not start. I am getting white smoke. So I am going to check the valve adjustment again tomorrow, What could I be missing that would cause this not to start. It was hard to start pulling it, but sounded ok after finally getting it to start.

 

[greg_g]

More fuel than necessary travels up the steel lines to the injectors, but they don't necessarily use it all for each piston cycle. The excess that doesn't actually go into the injector gets routed back to the tank. With the engine off, pump the hand primer. If your return line system is working properly, you should hear fuel pouring back into a partially filled fuel tank. But to the question, I don't think a disconnected return line would affect starting. More likely it would just spill raw fuel at the opening.

On a cold diesel that's just firing up, white exhaust is typically just condensation of moisture that's accumulated in the exhaust manifold/headpipe/muffler. Other than that, white exhaust is indicative of unburnt diesel fuel. Common causes include incorrect valve lash, incorrect injection pump timing, bad head gasket (not necessarily in that order).

//greg//

 

[whynot162]

I get a lot of white smoke, I always thought it was fuel. I get nothing out of the return lines at the top of the injectors, even when it is running. I have not moved the injection pump. I have just replaced the head gasket, so that leaves me doing the valve lash incorrectly, of an issue with the compression release that makes it easy to start.
I did have some help and someone adjusted something on the back of the pump. Do not know what it was, it is on the lower part of the pump. I will see if I can get a photo. He was supposed to know a lot about diesel tractors. Ya, he will never touch it again....

 

[whynot162]

after looking at this, I am getting air sucking into the exhaust when it is trying to start.
the spec I found is .35 and .40 does that sound correct? going to go adjust them to that and see if it helps.
Also tried to pump the hand pump and the handle came off and the rod inside is rusted, time for a new hand pump. but it should run without it correct?

Thanks
Doug

ok idiot here .35mm is .014

 

[whynot162]

The valves are adjusted correctly. i am having this sinking feeling that I will have a bent valve? can I tell if I remove the rockers will one of them be lower? of could it be damaged, and not noticeable from the outside.
Quite a learning experience this is...

 

[whynot162]

the parts diagram in the book calls the part that the "mechanic" adjusted to be the pull rod. What does that affect?

 

[whynot162]

I pulled the rockers off, and the exhaust valve for cyl #1 is higher than all of the others with a straight edge. does that mean anything? also there was oil in the exhaust under the muffler when I removed it.
Thanks
Doug

 

[Rich Waugh]

YOu say there was oil in the exhaust inder the muffler - what kind of oil? Is it motor oil or diesel fuel? Unburned diesel would collect there and thicken, resembling oil.

As for the high valve, that could be just a manufacturing difference or it could mean a problem with the valve seat or valve head. How much higher is it, exactly? A couple of thousandths is nothing, an eighth of an inch is a problem. You need to be much more specific with your information if we're going to be able to help you.

If the head gasket is installed properly and you're sure of that, then I'd suggest re-doing the valve lash by the book. Be sure to start with the number 1 cylinder at Top Dead Center (TDC) on the compression stroke. If you get that wrong, everything else will be off.

The rod your mechanic messed with is probably the actuator for the governor (throttle). That shouldn't be a significant factor in the starting issue, I don't think.

 

[whynot162]

I will try to give better information, I guess the problem is I do not know what is helpful. The flat edge will rock on the valve when placing it across the top of the valve stems. I do not know how to measure it.

The tractor was very hard to start when pulling it, but ran good when it did finally start. I have no mixing of water and oil, so I believe that the head-gasket was installed correctly, after installing the new rings and liners.

now that you mention it, the oil in the exhaust has got to be diesel. It is thin like diesel, and black from the soot I am assuming.
I will do the valve lash again. One book says .30MM and .40, another book just listing specifications, lists both at .38-.48. I used the .30(.014) and .40(.016) so when I do it again, I will use a little more gap.

thanks

 

[whynot162]

Ok, I went and did this again to .40MM. Still will not start and now there are large amounts of oil coming out of the exhaust. head gasket? or rings? how do I tell? The oil I mentioned above is this same oil. It takes some cranking then I get the oil, it is not immediate.

thanks
Doug

 

[whynot162]

pulled the head, the only thing that I see is that the liners are up about .002 higher than the rest of the block. but that is the way it was when I removed the originals, and you can see where the head gasket seals around the liner and it looks like a good clean seal. I did have the head done if you remember, and the valves are all black from soot, So I believe that the head is still ok also.
I will clean this really good and try again, unless someone has another idea, or recommendation.
thanks

 

[greg_g]

Any chance you got the wrong head gasket? Different variants of the same engine can use different gasket. Sleeve bore variants use a different gasket for example, than a cylinder bore. This is one way coolant can be introduced to the cylinder while cranking. Also sometimes not all oil and coolant passages line up between the block and the head. That's another way coolant and/or oil can get into the cylinder. Both of these conditions can create white smoke while cranking, and the latter might explain the "oil" you're now seeing.

//greg//

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Any chance you got the wrong head gasket? Different variants of the same engine can use different gasket. Sleeve bore variants use a different gasket for example, than a cylinder bore. This is one way coolant can be introduced to the cylinder while cranking. Also sometimes not all oil and coolant passages line up between the block and the head. That's another way coolant and/or oil can get into the cylinder. Both of these conditions can create white smoke while cranking, and the latter might explain the "oil" you're now seeing.

//greg//

I'll add that my Jinma came with a parts kit from the factory which included a head gasket, and that head gasket was for a different engine than mine. That caused me some confusion but I eventually figured it out.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Ok, I went and did this again to .40MM. Still will not start and now there are large amounts of oil coming out of the exhaust. head gasket? or rings? how do I tell? The oil I mentioned above is this same oil. It takes some cranking then I get the oil, it is not immediate.

thanks
Doug

This sounds like engine oil. On my Jinma it takes 10-15 seconds for the oil pump to generate pressure.

What does the oil smell like? Diesel has a distinctive smell. Engine oil is subtler but also a recognizable smell.

If the head gasket were not sealing engine oil leaking into the cylinders could be a consequence.

 

[rsallen]

Was a compression test done prior to pulling the head back off?

Valve job was done?
Machinist should have cut valve height to a reasonable tolerance.

Oil pressure gallery goes through headgasket on your engine? Or an outside line? (I've seen it done both ways on engines)

 

[whynot162]

I have no idea how to do a compression test on this engine, The injectors are held in by a clamp type thing from the top, not threaded in.
I did have the head done when I did the liners and rings.
I am not sure about the head gasket. I will clean it up and see if it lines up, the oil is fed to the head through a passage that is sealed by the head gasket
This was a pain to start for a long time, then found that the coolant was seeping into the cylinder through a liner. That is why all of this work was done, and I was hoping that this would fix it and I could have a good starting tractor again...