Snow blower woes

[amanda11270]

So a while back I bought this blower for my Iseki tractor, I finally got around to installing it and guess what, it spins the wrong direction. Anyone know of a fix for this, I cant see one. My PTO spins counterclockwise from the front of the tractor, but the blower spins as if to push the tractor backwards, not drive it forward as it should DANG!

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

The Iseki tractor front PTOs spin opposite of most other Bolens and garden tractors. It's an important issue that tends to get overlooked. Took me a while to get onboard with that problem too. I'm not sure if Bolens produced both clockwise and counter-clockwise versions of the single-stage blowers but there seem to be plenty out there. You shouldn't have trouble finding one. Now a 2-stage seems to be more difficult.

Can you post pictures of the chain drive? You might have some sort of option there to change the direction. Not sure about the gear box.

 

[amanda11270]

Well the switch from PTO direction isnt made into the unit, so I decided to pull it apart, spin the gearbox 180 degrees, move the chain unit to the left side and wallah, it will spin the correct way. Nothing a liittle cutting and welding cant solve. I wouldnt be so into this, but I have already mounted up a electric chute rotation motor to it, and wired it into my tractor prior to learning it spins the wrong way. I drove about 200 miles one way two years ago to buy this thing, and spent about $200 bucks on it, fabricated a mount to fit an Iseki tractor. I even have a linear actuator to make the tip tilt.

It would have been great to learn that this thing could be made to accept cw or ccw PTO built into the unit, I figured maybe it would of because it was made back when they made em like they used to LOL.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Sounds like a good plan. :thumbsup: Undoubtably others will run into the same issue and they can use the same fix. IIRC when I replaced the seals in my gearbox you could run the output shaft out the opposite side of the box and it would spin the opposite direction. That way the user wouldn't have to make new mounts for the gearbox housing since it wouldn't have to be flipped. Not sure what your configuration is but something to look at. I don't know if that was the intention on the Bolens units or not in this application. I think the gearbox was used possibly for the mower decks also. Hard to tell for sure. Your gearbox looks a little different than the Bolens one from what I can see in the picture.

One other consideration is the input speed to the blower. It would be good to know what this blower is rated for. It may not match up exactly with the 2000 rpm rated output of your front PTO. This could be compensated for the easiest by changing out one or both of the chain drive sprockets to get the right speed. Too slow and you'll wind up with a plugged chute and little throw, too fast and you'll use excessive power and possibly tear things up from high speed.

 

[TomSeller]

Well the switch from PTO direction isnt made into the unit, so I decided to pull it apart, spin the gearbox 180 degrees, move the chain unit to the left side and wallah, it will spin the correct way. Nothing a liittle cutting and welding cant solve. I wouldnt be so into this, but I have already mounted up a electric chute rotation motor to it, and wired it into my tractor prior to learning it spins the wrong way. I drove about 200 miles one way two years ago to buy this thing, and spent about $200 bucks on it, fabricated a mount to fit an Iseki tractor. I even have a linear actuator to make the tip tilt.

It would have been great to learn that this thing could be made to accept cw or ccw PTO built into the unit, I figured maybe it would of because it was made back when they made em like they used to LOL.

I was going to say cut the auger shaft, switch the ends and weld the shaft back up but it looks like you got it figured out. I echo the concern on rpm.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Here's what I'm getting for ratios in the blower drive train based on a 12" auger diameter. If your auger is larger these speeds will likely go down by the same ratio vs. a 12", at least that would be my guess:

Tractor PTO - 0.738 (PTO/engine) which is close to the 0.743:1 ratio I found from measuring the pulley diameters.
Snow thrower gearbox - 0.621 (blower shaft/PTO shaft)
Chain drive - 0.818 (auger shaft/blower shaft)

For an overall ratio of 0.375 (auger shaft/engine). In the case of the Bolens unit, it is spinning at just over 1000 rpm at rated engine speed.

Bolens single stage blower speeds test - YouTube

 

[amanda11270]

Here's what I'm getting for ratios in the blower drive train based on a 12" auger diameter. If your auger is larger these speeds will likely go down by the same ratio vs. a 12", at least that would be my guess:

Tractor PTO - 0.738 (PTO/engine) which is close to the 0.743:1 ratio I found from measuring the pulley diameters.
Snow thrower gearbox - 0.621 (blower shaft/PTO shaft)
Chain drive - 0.818 (auger shaft/blower shaft)

For an overall ratio of 0.375 (auger shaft/engine). In the case of the Bolens unit, it is spinning at just over 1000 rpm at rated engine speed.

Bolens single stage blower speeds test - YouTube

Well, last night I discovered the ends of the impeller also need flipped, not sure if I want to continue, I like to do these projects, but I might be asking for problems balancing this rig once I get into that. Still pondering, but lost a little initiative since last night due to problem I didn't notice then. So do u think RPM would match with this blower?

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

You can check your gearbox for its ratio - just spin it about 10 times and count the number of turns on the output and divide the two numbers. Then compare the diameters of chain sprockets to figure out the chain ratio. Measure the auger diameter too and then you'll be able to make a comparison.

Not sure if I'm following on the impeller (auger?) flipping. If I understand correctly, you'd need to move the sprocket to the other side of the auger. I guessing this can't be done easily. Please clarify if you can.

 

[amanda11270]

Turns out I can do this. I got discouraged the other night due to finding that I cant just flip the auger over, the ends have to actually be cut off and switched to keep the paddle portion throwing snow into the chute the correct direction.

I first thought, how the heck am I gonna keep it true so it doesnt spin wobbly once I cut the ends off to swap them. Turns out after cutting the ends off, there is, or now was, a 1 inch rod going thru the center of the entire auger, but the internal auger outer tube is 1 3/4 inches with these steel spacers welded to the original center 1 inch rod to make up that 3/4 inch of space, those spacers make it so it has to be true. So today I got a new center shaft (1 inch solid steel rod cut down to fit the width of the blower thru the auger), then tonight I gently (as gently as possible with my grinder) removed the spacers from the original 1 inch center shaft by grinding out the welds holding them in place, then they fit precisely on my new center shaft so it cant be out of balance, same with the end chain gear, it fits so precise that it almost cant be out of round.

I will deal with the RPMs once I get the blower rebuilt, probably by Sat. I will have it back together as a blower unit by then hopefully, due to Xmas and the relatives coming over I will be postponed a few days. I figure the upper drive chain gear would be easiest to acquire in a different size if I need to adjust the blower speed since the lower one will be rewelded back on the auger, the upper uses just a set screw and woodruff key. I never had a single stage blower or any tractor mounted blower before, I had a dual stage walk behind in the past. But this single stage tractor mounted thing is really scary to be in front of when its turning, even when its going the wrong direction LOL.

I will post pictures of this once I get further, its a mess of parts now.

 

[TomSeller]

Sounds like it is all working out. Good deal.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Glad to hear it still will work out. Balance is definitely an issue on these relatively high-speed auger/impeller units. When I received mine the center paddles were cracked in the corners and the collector was also starting to break out. I beefed them up by welding straps on. Certainly this affected the balance on the auger but it doesn't seem too bad. I'm not sure how much effort the manufacturers put into balancing the units, I've never seen counterweights welded on any but I haven't really paid that much attention to it.

 

[amanda11270]

Finished up the blower today, cut off the sprocket box from the right and moved it to the left, flipped the gearbox 180, swap the side of the auger the sprocket was on. A little cutting, welding, drilling and some black paint and its finished. It appears to not wobble or shake much at all, I was pretty meticulous in attempting to keep the whole setup as true as possible, not certain how big of a concern that is with something like this. I will have to test it out the next time it snows. I dont mind fabricating and have quite the assortment of tools, however next time I will check the shaft rotation before buying, live and learn.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Looks good. Keep us posted on how it works. Did you get a chance to check the auger speed? Don't feel bad about the shaft rotation, that's an easy one to miss. I would have bought an incorrect one if the seller didn't bring it up during the sale.

 

[amanda11270]

I never got a chance to actually check the RPM speeds at the auger, however we got about 6 inches of snow outside and I did my whole driveway with the blower (about 1/10 mile) and with the tractor rpms at 1800 and above the blower moves snow real well. If anything it seems to work better when I hit deeper snow. The blower is good for my drive that is about a large truck width wide, and throws it off to both sides easily, however the parking area at my house is about 100 feet by 75 feet (where I park my company vehicles), so I have to go straight into it and just blow it forward to keep it off the whole area while blowing as it cant throw it as far as either the length or width. Im also glad I installed an eletric motor to do the spin of the chute as I would of been in and out of the cab numerous times. I wanted to use this unit before putting a linear actuator on the tip of the chute to change the throw angle from the cab. I wanted to use it before putting anymore $$$ into it, but now im sold on it and its capabilities.

 

[TomSeller]

Congratulations. You sure did a nice job.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Glad it worked out for you. Others will run into similar problems and may be able to use your modifications for a solution. To be honest I never really liked single-stage throwers much but I have to admit they do work pretty well for the most part. I'm sure you'll continue to be happy with yours. I found having a snow thrower on the front and a rear blade work really well together. Especially the rear blade for sidewalk work. Have fun!

 

[amanda11270]

To tell ya the truth I was skeptical of doing all this work on a single stage as I have only ever owned dual stage walk behinds before. I was adapting a gravely dual stage previously, but ran into a issue I could not resolve. I'm little afraid to stand in front of this blower as it works much more violently than any other blower I've used. But if anyone runs into this and adapts one, its definitely worth it, it throws much better than I would of figured. But probably not as good as the bolens dual stage they make, that probably won't need any modifications to work with the Isekis.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

...But probably not as good as the bolens dual stage they make, that probably won't need any modifications to work with the Isekis.

From what I can gather Bolens offered three major types of small tractor snow throwers:

18000 series throwers - single stage and various widths from 32" to 42"
50146 - 2-stage 46" unit, light weight but takes CW input (non-Iseki)
1948/1949 - 2-stage unit, heavy, takes CCW input (Iseki)

I almost bought a 50146 before finding out it takes a different PTO direction input than my Isekis have. I have a 1948 unit that I plan on installing on a Iseki TS2202F (Bolens G244). The 1948 really is a monster among snow throwers. Installed weight is claimed to be over 500 lbs. In my opinion it's too much thrower for the TX series tractors although people have and are using them successfully on such. The 50146 would be an ideal thrower for the TX tractors if it turned the correct way. Alternatively I've found that the Kubota 50" 2-stage blowers (B2650/B2750/etc.) should be a better match for the TXs than the 1948/9. They take a CCW input and are chain driven to the impeller which allows easy speed changes via the output sprocket. They are designed to take around a 2500 rpm input vs. the 2000 the Isekis put out. I was fortunate enough to find a B2650 for a very good price but normally they are probably not worth the cost to buy and modify for an Iseki. Weight is about half of the 1948 do mainly to lighter construction (thinner steel) and lack of the heavy gear box.

 

[NHmitch]

This has been a great thread to follow, and the blower looks great! I have been thinking about doing the same thing for awhile, because I have a very large area on my farm that I snow blow with an older Ariens ST1032, that I just repowered with a 11hp briggs, however it would be great to do it from the tractor seat since my arms and shoulders are not good from the military rebuilding, or repowering both sides with lots of government hardware.
I have looked at quite a few Bolens snow throwers on Craigs List, and they all appear to be for the Bolens Mowers, not the Iseki's. Is that what you have on the front? I know that they sold one that came with the Iseki's and that may be the 1948/1949 models? I am just not sure what to look for. I was also wondering if you could use a PTO reverser to solve the directional issue. There may not be enough room, but I am not sure.

Amanda, Great modification, and thread!
Ilikeurtractor, great infor and specs!

Thanks for the advice, and glad that this worked out for you!

Last but not least, I know that they sold a snow plow with the Bolen/Iseki models. Does anyone have the model numbers, or know which ones will fit a TX? Thanks!

From what I can gather Bolens offered three major types of small tractor snow throwers:

18000 series throwers - single stage and various widths from 32" to 42"
50146 - 2-stage 46" unit, light weight but takes CW input (non-Iseki)
1948/1949 - 2-stage unit, heavy, takes CCW input (Iseki)

I almost bought a 50146 before finding out it takes a different PTO direction input than my Isekis have. I have a 1948 unit that I plan on installing on a Iseki TS2202F (Bolens G244). The 1948 really is a monster among snow throwers. Installed weight is claimed to be over 500 lbs. In my opinion it's too much thrower for the TX series tractors although people have and are using them successfully on such. The 50146 would be an ideal thrower for the TX tractors if it turned the correct way. Alternatively I've found that the Kubota 50" 2-stage blowers (B2650/B2750/etc.) should be a better match for the TXs than the 1948/9. They take a CCW input and are chain driven to the impeller which allows easy speed changes via the output sprocket. They are designed to take around a 2500 rpm input vs. the 2000 the Isekis put out. I was fortunate enough to find a B2650 for a very good price but normally they are probably not worth the cost to buy and modify for an Iseki. Weight is about half of the 1948 do mainly to lighter construction (thinner steel) and lack of the heavy gear box.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

That is a nice conversion and the chute motors are an excellent touch.