Kubota VS Mahindra Max

[AchingBack]

Totally Agree with this. Also a substantial part of why I said in this, or another thread, that IMHO, Japan put's out some of the finest tractors in the SCUT, CUT class, and is the standard by which all others SCUT, CUT's are measured.



"Coming Down On" intimates that "Everyone" is berating, or belittling Mahindra. I honestly do not believe that is the case for the Majority of people. I can say with supreme confidence that is not the case with myself.

So here is the distinction as I see it. And this is coming from looking for a solid year and a half at the SCUT, and more recently small CUT class.

The Mahindra MAX for example, in my opinion, is primitive in its finish. I have many reasons for saying this, None of which you would probably see Eye to Eye with me on. And that's fine. My opinion on the "Refinement" of the Mahindra speaks nothing at all to the over all quality of the tractor. I am confident that they are fine tractors. I have said it a dozen times now, NOBODY really makes a terrible tractor now a days. They are all just different flavors. But for myself, they lack certain things that keep me from ever wanting to own one. But none of that is important. To your point, I don't think its a matter of belittling the Mahindra. I think it's more a matter that generally speaking, people feel that they lack refinement. Nothing more.

My counter question would be, why does that opinion extort so much contempt from avid supporters?

Perhaps you could describe what you mean by refinement.

 

[kiotiken]

My counter question would be, why does that opinion extort so much contempt from avid supporters?

I would say a lot of people here take pride in the choice they made when buying their tractor. Everybody evaluates the merits of each brand differently, and in their minds, they made the obvious choice. The problem is, it can't be obvious to everybody or we'd all have the same machines. When people say they chose something different because they valued the pros and cons differently, I think some people take that as they made the wrong choice. Then again, some people do almost come out and say my choice is better than yours, and that's kind of what's lead us down this rabbit hole.

As for the refinment of Mahindra, I don't have any experience to say. There was no Mahindra dealer in my area at the time (there is now) and the Maxx wasn't around. I never looked at them. They spec out close to Kioti tractors and they're closely priced as well, so they're obviously my type of tractor, heavy and strong. They'd be on my list of options if I was shopping and I'd suggest people check them out if they asked me.

 

[Singalo]

Perhaps you could describe what you mean by refinement.

I have in other posts, specifically on the Mahindra MAX, but come to think of it, I think that was MTF.

I would be happy to go into detail on all of the things I didn't like about the Mahindra MAX if you would like. (I have time =)). But as is the case with most commentary, it's just my opinion, opinions that not everyone shares.

I think the point I was trying to make is not about "MY" opinions, it's about what the General Opinion of the greater population.

Speaking from a #'s perspective, it is not opinion that Kubota sells more SCUT, CUT tractors then,, anyone let alone Mahindra. Why is that? Well, there are more then one reason, but one of those reasons is this very topic we are speaking about. Refinement.

Many people make the argument that Mahindra is the #4 seller of tractors in the USA. And that they are poised to jump ahead in the future. And that is fine. If they do, then I will be the first one looking at them. But we are not living in the future yet, we are living now. And for now, they lack refinement that would otherwise change my mind about owning one. I think the numbers support the notion that this opinion is shared by many, but not all.

 

[AchingBack]

I have in other posts, specifically on the Mahindra MAX, but come to think of it, I think that was MTF.

I would be happy to go into detail on all of the things I didn't like about the Mahindra MAX if you would like. (I have time =)). But as is the case with most commentary, it's just my opinion, opinions that not everyone shares.

I think the point I was trying to make is not about "MY" opinions, it's about what the General Opinion of the greater population.

Speaking from a #'s perspective, it is not opinion that Kubota sells more SCUT, CUT tractors then,, anyone let alone Mahindra. Why is that? Well, there are more then one reason, but one of those reasons is this very topic we are speaking about. Refinement.

Many people make the argument that Mahindra is the #4 seller of tractors in the USA. And that they are poised to jump ahead in the future. And that is fine. If they do, then I will be the first one looking at them. But we are not living in the future yet, we are living now. And for now, they lack refinement that would otherwise change my mind about owning one. I think the numbers support the notion that this opinion is shared by many, but not all.

So, just what refinements would be required for you to change your mind?

 

[Singalo]

I would say a lot of people here take pride in the choice they made when buying their tractor. Everybody evaluates the merits of each brand differently, and in their minds, they made the obvious choice. The problem is, it can't be obvious to everybody or we'd all have the same machines. When people say they chose something different because they valued the pros and cons differently, I think some people take that as they made the wrong choice. Then again, some people do almost come out and say my choice is better than yours, and that's kind of what's lead us down this rabbit hole.

THANK YOU! Thank you for putting that out there. Now we are getting to the heart of things. I totally agree with ^. This strikes to the core of an "Argument" I was having in another thread with a guy that is looking for advice on buying a new SCUT/CUT tractor. TOO often in these forums, people lead with, and stick to emotion. People won't come right out and say it, but the real reason people react with contempt is precisely what you just stated. But you can't have any constructive conversation when the opposing side, or should I say the side advocating what I call Economy Tractors, only reply with emotion out of some misplaced sense that they have been attacked. I said it there and I will say it here. Once people get over themselves, there is a valid conversation to be had. One supported not just by opinion, but by actual substance. I am not new to forums. I participate in MANY. But I am always surprised at how difficult it is to draw out substance. I am often forced to conclude that many Advocates for what ever we may be talking about don't honestly understand themselves why they are advocates. They certainly don't seem to possess the means to explain their side of it. It always deteriorates into grade school shouting.

So Thank you for saying this.

EDIT: Murph, and Mike if you happen to read this. I won't bother directly responding to you guys anymore, and ^ THIS is precisely why. Stirring the Pot Murph? Thanks for proving my point. Your last 3 posts directed at me have been nothing more then attacks. No substance. Honestly, you are THE LAST type of person that I would want to take advice from. Because the only advice you have comes directly from your heart, not from a place of honesty.

Edit 2: Fildreport added to the ignore list. And for the record, I have had in my 59 previous posts, elicited 3 private emails telling me I am spot on. Guess I am not the only one that likes to hear myself.

 

[Filedreport]

You have been on this forum for what ? 1 month and more than 50 of your posts are on this thread. I think you joined this forum just to stir the pot with your BS.:stirthepot:

Stir the pot, yes but boy does he like to hear himself.

 

[kiotiken]

But you can't have any constructive conversation when the opposing side, or should I say the side advocating what I call Economy Tractors,...

You're welcome, but this part of what you say is also why people can sometimes get their backs up. You need to realize there are "Economy Tractor" from Kubota as well as other "Name brand" "premium" tractor manufactures like JD. The Standard L line is the "Economy" cousin of the grand L line and the 3032E & 3038E from JD are the "Economy" cousins of the 3000 series. In both cases they are more bare bones tractors and marketed to people who want a bare bones tractor but they cut some corners in some cases to reduce costs and lower price. They are there to help fill in a price point for people unwilling to pay the premium price that these brands command.

Weekend warriors who spend $20-$40K don't want to be told they have an "Economy" tractor, actually, I don't think anybody does.

 

[murphy1244]

THANK YOU! Thank you for putting that out there. Now we are getting to the heart of things. I totally agree with ^. This strikes to the core of an "Argument" I was having in another thread with a guy that is looking for advice on buying a new SCUT/CUT tractor. TOO often in these forums, people lead with, and stick to emotion. People won't come right out and say it, but the real reason people react with contempt is precisely what you just stated. But you can't have any constructive conversation when the opposing side, or should I say the side advocating what I call Economy Tractors, only reply with emotion out of some misplaced sense that they have been attacked. I said it there and I will say it here. Once people get over themselves, there is a valid conversation to be had. One supported not just by opinion, but by actual substance. I am not new to forums. I participate in MANY. But I am always surprised at how difficult it is to draw out substance. I am often forced to conclude that many Advocates for what ever we may be talking about don't honestly understand themselves why they are advocates. They certainly don't seem to possess the means to explain their side of it. It always deteriorates into grade school shouting.

So Thank you for saying this.

EDIT: Murph, and Mike if you happen to read this. I won't bother directly responding to you guys anymore, and ^ THIS is precisely why. Stirring the Pot Murph? Thanks for proving my point. Your last 3 posts directed at me have been nothing more then attacks. No substance. Honestly, you are THE LAST type of person that I would want to take advice from. Because the only advice you have comes directly from your heart, not from a place of honesty.

Edit 2: Fildreport added to the ignore list. And for the record, I have had in my 59 previous posts, elicited 3 private emails telling me I am spot on. Guess I am not the only one that likes to hear myself.

You won't respond cause you know I'm right. You have been on this Forum for less than 2 weeks and over 95% of your posts are on this thread crying about what Don said about a tractor you don't even own. Put me on the list too.

 

[Singalo]

So, just what refinements would be required for you to change your mind?

For what it's worth,

The MAX 25 is HEAVY. Mahindra touts this as a positive. They use it as support for "How Well Built" the MAX is. But there are two things here, They want to call the MAX a SCUT. MOST people looking for a SCUT class tractor do not want a 1700 LB Bare tractor. As far as SCUT's go, this is a negative to me. On the other side of the argument, the MAX 25 is a CUT as far as I am concerned, and the Weight makes sense as such. However, Kubota pointed out, and rightly so, that the Mahindra is under powered, power to weight ratio, compared to other comparable tractors by other brands. Please note, I am not commenting on rather or not the tractor has enough power. Maybe it does, maybe it does not. But I do feel that compared to other brands, the Power the MAX does have is not some super selling point.

Huge rear tires, "For a Scut", and no rear fenders. Yes, the MAX has fenders, but like 90% of the tire is exposed. I don't like this.

The placement of the brake peddel, and the fact that they give you right and left braking, but place it on the same side as the forward reverse pedals is just stupid. Yes, this stupid design is shared by some other brands, and it's just as stupid on them. I have to swing my left leg over to the right side in order to get any use out of right and left braking. Why? In fact, why give Right and left braking on a "SCUT" anyhow? Are you plowing fields with your SCUT? That was the original purpose back in the days of 2WD Farm Tractors. They should have saved the money adding this, and gave you a proper forward pedal.

Which leads me to my next complaint. What the heck is up with the wire rod for the foot pedals? Is it functional? I guess so, but it's pretty dang UNREFINED in my book. I don't like it.

The FEL has all flexible Hydraulic line stuck to it. Why? When every other SCUT has Hard line, and every other CUT has hard line on the FEL. This was clearly a step backwards and likely done as a cost saving measure. I don't like it.

Further on the FEL, that is one heck of a loader control set up. The valve is jacked off a steel stand off, with about the most basic handle you could find sticking off the valve. Again, function? Yea I guess so, but I have seen and operated much cleaner and better fitting designs. Is this the way we build things in 2013? On a totally redesigned from the ground up tractor? I don't like it.

The control lay out is awkward. People that like the MAX disagree, I get it. But it makes me think of the tractor design they were using in the 1940's. It's old fashioned and not as comfortable to me.

The hood is flimsy. When you lift it, it rocks back and forth and feels like it was just thrown together hap hazard. I don't like it.

Max brags about how easy it is to work on the engin, and sees the "Backwards Desing" of other brands as somehow a negative. There is a reason the radiator is in the back on other brands. It shields the radiator from taking on laundry Lint when mowing the lawn, and it pulls the air from the cockpit through the engine and passes the hot air out the front. This is LESS refined in my book to mount the engine the same way they have been doing it for 100 years.

The Diff Loc lever is in the back of the cockpit. You have to pull your foot back, and lean forward to apply pressure to the foot control. Why not put it up front where you just have to move your foot 1 inch to catch it. And instead of having to lean forward to apply weight, you can push back naturally into your seat. I don't like it.

The lights on the fender are an absolute joke. Both the light quality and the placement. They are begging to be smashed.

The MMM height adjustment is NEOLITHIC. Mahindra, you are seriously going to use the draw bar in the MMM height adjustment scheme? I don't like it.

The way the Backhoe attaches to the MAX, now here is an interesting question. My local dealer claims he has NO IDEA how the backhoe attaches the the MAX 25, as he has never sold one with a hoe. He can't speak to how easy or not easy it is to take on and off. He was not certain if the 3 point hitch arms had to come off or not. I heard through someone else that the arms can stay on, but it's actually less of a pain in the but to simply take them off. The hoe connects to the tractor by an under carriage mount. It is unclear if this has to come off in order to mount the MMM. Oddly enough, with all the videos available on line, NOT ONE showing how to take the hoe on and off. And my local dealer can't give me even the first clue how to do it? I would call the Service primitive also.

Looks mean something to me. I certainly would not overlook and ugly tractor if it had everything else going for it. But, it is a factor non the less. Along with the cockpit layout, the whole tractor looks OLD. The Mahindra Max Series was supposed to be a completely new development from the ground up. (I do not buy this, I think they took an existing tractor and put new tires on it, but that's another thread). For being a completely new tractor, this thing is dated. I don't like it.

The advertising campaign for the MAX series is simply misleading and distasteful. This says a lot to me about what the core values at Mahindra are. And I do not share them. Between Don and my local Dealer, they have both shown utter contempt for any other brand of tractor and non Mahindra branded/sanctioned attachments. If you need a demonstration of unprofessional-ism, see Don's No More BX/S video. The core values of the company are Primitive, and I don't like it.

Now before you tell me that many other brands, share many of the same traits I have listed here, I am not denying that. But in totality, the Mahindra showed me it's true colors. It is not a new tractor in my opinion, it is an old tractor with a few changes to it. It was a tractor designed for the Asian market from whence it came, namely India. And the total package added up to be much less appealing to me then many other choices available.

These are my Opinions. You asked me for them, and I have put them forth. Please note that I never once said that the Mahindra is not a solid tractor, nor did I say that people should not buy it if it works for them. But at the same time, I think quite a few people share many of the same opinions.

 

[Singalo]

You're welcome, but this part of what you say is also why people can sometimes get their backs up. You need to realize there are "Economy Tractor" from Kubota as well as other "Name brand" "premium" tractor manufactures like JD.

Again, I am not disagreeing with you on this point. You are right, but the thing I think you might be missing is that the Primary reason anyone advocates for what I call "Economy Tractors", is precisely because they are cheaper. Take Mahindra as an example, tractor for tractor, one of the haul marks is that they are nearly always cheaper then their competitor. And this fact is cited over and over again. Price is not my Primary cirteria, but it sure does seem to be on the top of the list for the advocates of such tractors. So Price, undeniably is one of the primary defining factors. One I feel is pretty crucial. What is wrong with calling these tractors what they are? They are generally cheaper, so, they are economy Tractors. That is not by the way a criticism, but can you deney that along with a smaller price tag, often there are things that you are giving up. Refinement being one aspect, but also, and arguably more important, the Support and Dealer network, reputation and resale-ability. Maybe not worth a nickel to some, but it's worth a lot to lots of folks. Let's not pretend that you are saving all this money on these economy tractors for free.

The Standard L line is the "Economy" cousin of the grand L line and the 3032E & 3038E from JD are the "Economy" cousins of the 3000 series. In both cases they are more bare bones tractors and marketed to people who want a bare bones tractor but they cut some corners in some cases to reduce costs and lower price. They are there to help fill in a price point for people unwilling to pay the premium price that these brands command.

We agree again. That seems to happen quite a lot between you and I. But this gets right back to the first part of this reply, Reputation, Dealer Network, Service, Resale ability, are all things you are getting with mainstream brands. And it's not the Kubota, Massey, JD, NH fans that are pushing how much cheaper the "Economy Lines" are. It's the people advocating their lesser known brand that Push Savings. But they always seem to ignore that they OFTEN lack refinements that other brands have along with what I just mentioned.

Weekend warriors who spend $20-$40K don't want to be told they have an "Economy" tractor, actually, I don't think anybody does.

Ironically enough, people that spend less money on their tractors don't want to be told they have an "Economy Tractor" either.

I think you and I at least are pretty much on the same page, even if we have different takes on it. And that's not a bad thing. I personally think there is something to be gained from putting these differences of opinion out there. It's not a one sided story for either view now. I am willing to bet there are people that will read this and take away something from both perspectives.

 

[crashz]

This has been a fun, emotional thread.

After reading all these posts, I kind of forgot about the original subject. But I do remember someone stating that they would not take a Max even for free.

I would like to state for the record that I would take a free Mahindra Max. Preferably a TLB package. So Don, if you are still reading and want to get some serious brownie points, I'll be waiting for a PM with your dealership info. I'll even shamelessly promote Mahindra. Heck, I'll promote Mahindra if you give me that old BX!

 

[94BULLITT]

You have been on this forum for what ? 1 month and more than 50 of your posts are on this thread. I think you joined this forum just to stir the pot with your BS.:stirthepot:

I think Mahindra Don did.

I'd be very interested in the source of your numbers. I'm doubtfull that the US is the largest tractor market in the world. I'm positive that Kubota does not sell 70% of the tractors in the US. Think about that number for a minute and see if it still makes sense in you head, it's just not possible. You'd need a pretty reliable source to make me buy that one.

There are several sources that claim that Mahindra sells more units than anybody else in the world. Here's what Mahindra says. Mahindra Tractors - Why Mahindra / History. There are over a billion people in India alone. The population of the US is only about 5% of the worlds population.

I'll try to find some stuff to back it up. You can't drive a mile around here with out driving past a Kubota.

 

[murphy1244]

I think Mahindra Don did.



I'll try to find some stuff to back it up. You can't drive a mile around here with out driving past a Kubota.

Roger, The guy apologizes and quit the thread, What else you want from him? Blood? Kubota makes a great product I know that. And this guy has been stirring the pot on more than this thread.

 

[Singalo]

I think Mahindra Don did.



I'll try to find some stuff to back it up. You can't drive a mile around here with out driving past a Kubota.

You should not have have to look to far Bullitt. Mahindra is the current leader in world wide sales. But it's in large part based on the staggering sales they do in India.

 

[kiotiken]

I'll try to find some stuff to back it up. You can't drive a mile around here with out driving past a Kubota.

Sure, but you can't drive a Kilometer around here without driving past 4 JD's and a couple Cases :laughing: I think a lot of it is regional and based on the history of the area.

 

[workinallthetime]

I have no horse in the race, but I'll just point out that Mahindra is the biggest tractor producer in the world. You're right, in North America they don't seem to have a huge presence YET, but I'd say wait a few years and that will change.

When I was getting out of my JD, I was sure I was buying a Kubota but wanted to do my homework anyway. In the end, I found more value in Kioti. Everybody will have their opinion, but the point is these new players are making dependable, economical tractors with more standard features and they're gaining market share as a result.

maindia is the largest tractor producer in the world (does this include their copy of jeeps?), just not the USA i guess.

I wish these monkey would spend money on "real world" comparisons;
compare speed with a full load of dirt in across some distance point a - b I don't see that as very useful, I can travel much faster than I ever would if I chose to, although I'd spill have the load and bruise my kidneys. Bucket size is more useful to look at and is simply related to FEL lift cap. ok use some creativity here, equal load climbing the same grade in the same range. To me this will demonstate hydrostatic abilities. I remember reading the bobcat brand tractors would not pull a grade empty in high range, this was a big issue to owners
compare full down to full top dump speed on the FEL The larger the cylinders, the stronger the loader and the slower it will lift. My DK45 will lift 2.5X what my CK30 would, but it's slower, I still think it's a positive. ever watch a big wheel loader operate at a construction site? scoup, run, dump, and back for another load. True larger cylinders are slower when they are being operated by a lower volume pump, this is where gpm's come into play
compare full right to full left speed on the BH
compare maintence points and how easy they are to reach
compare both units pulling a disc, pulling a brush hog, pushing a snow plow With the same tires, this will mostly come down to weight. Just look at which one is heavier, that'll tell you how well they'll pull/push. PTO hp is straight forward for a bush hog. agree but if one has to run in a say in low and the other can do it in medium range this would be good to know before you buy
compare turning radius
compare stabilty on a hill
most importantly to each of us in the saddle, compare the seat, stearing effort, and ease of operation of the controls Everybody will have their own preference, that's why you have to sit in the seat yourself if one has 1" of seat foam and the other has 4"of seat foam, diff lock location (i hate mine), reach to loader joy stick (not a big deal to most but after several hours of moving dirt this becomes important), quickness of gear changes. ect....
what good is everything else if you cant stand to be on it for 8 hours?

im not saying anything about either bota or maindia, just saying compare things that matter

 

[workinallthetime]

speaking of :stirthepot:
funny how this is in the "Kubota" section yet we have so many in here that dont own either brand, passionate subject i guess.

 

[murphy1244]

speaking of :stir the pot:
funny how this is in the "Kubota" section yet we have so many in here that don't own either brand, passionate subject i guess.

It is ain't it, Most peculiar.

 

[Singalo]

speaking of :stirthepot:
funny how this is in the "Kubota" section yet we have so many in here that dont own either brand, passionate subject i guess.

There is only so much you can say in the way of comparing the MAX to the Kubota. Everything that could be said, pretty much as been said on the subject at this point. I think the topic changed a bit to a matter of principles. That started when Don posted his video, and it morphed again later on. There is validity in voicing both sides of what is essentially a principles question. Though I agree letting it devolve into caterwauling is less then productive.