Property Value/Appraisals RANT

[dave1949]

Property taxes are set by the town budget divided by the value of all the property in the town "The Grand List" A well run city with a lot of commercial property can have tax rates well below average and a poorly run rural town that tries to provide city services like trash collection without some industry or commercial property to support it can have very high tax rates. I think the benchmark for what is low or high is two percent of what you could really sell it for today. that would be school, town and county taxes combined. More then two percent your getting ripped off less then two percent keep quiet and reelect those in charge.

That (2%) is an interesting metric. My tax valuation is $208,700. My total annual property taxes are $2,990. So:
.02x = 2990
2990/.02 = $149,500

Selling anything around here the past few years that is above $150,000 is tough, and will stay that way until the folks from MA, CT, NJ and NY return with money. I have no idea what I would get for my property if I had to sell it and actually could. My plan is to outlive this recession :laughing:

For the condo I own in Ohio, the 2% works out to be about $18,000 below what like units have sold for recently. So, that is good, you are saying.

 

[J F]

Where exactly is the "heart of dixie", kenmac?

 

[vtsnowedin]

That (2%) is an interesting metric. My tax valuation is $208,700. My total annual property taxes are $2,990. So:
.02x = 2990
2990/.02 = $149,500

Selling anything around here the past few years that is above $150,000 is tough, and will stay that way until the folks from MA, CT, NJ and NY return with money. I have no idea what I would get for my property if I had to sell it and actually could. My plan is to outlive this recession :laughing:

For the condo I own in Ohio, the 2% works out to be about $18,000 below what like units have sold for recently. So, that is good, you are saying.

$208,700 X .02 = $4174 Your tax bill of $2990 is a bargain but then there is Maine's state income tax to consider.
The only way to cut your property taxes is to vote no at every occasion.

 

[300UGUY]

Good point but the flip side to rural property is generally the property tax is MUCH less than being in the city. I know our rural house which is twice the size of the old city house but worth far more AND our property cost HALF as much in property tax. The difference in property tax pays for a LOT of fuel. If we had lived near a rail line, the property tax would have been much higher because of the higher valuations. Even driving far more miles today and with much higher fuel prices we are still ahead money wise because of the lower property tax bill. Now, these numbers are based on what the city house USED to cost in property tax vs what the current rural bill. I am sure the city house has MUCH higher property taxes today.

Another much higher cost in the city is water, sewer and garbage collection. We paid $50-125 a month for water, sewer and garbage years ago. I bet it is much higher now. Just that monthly bill more than pays for our extra cost driving to work. Don't get me started about the sorry a...ss garbage haulers tormenting our dogs and ALWAYS leaving trash on the ground....

Later,
Dan

I used to commute 100+ miles to work. Even with a pretty efficient car, my fuel cost was 6 to 800 per month. And I have to pay for my trash hauling seperate, plus I need propane rather than natural gas, propane is more than 2x. Then my home insurance is quite a bit more, since I am 8 miles from the nearest fire station. I don't really see that rural living is cheaper. My brother lives 3 miles from his workplace in the city, he fills his truck up about every 3 weeks. His taxes are about 20% higher than mine, but he has a paved road, trash collection, cheaper heating, and a fire station 3 blocks away. I like living in a rural area, but low cost it is not.

 

[dave1949]

Rural vs town costs, what are the numbers if you compare the cost of a well and septic system to monthly utility bills in town? Septic systems don't last forever and do need some periodic maintenance. Wells require electric usage and you hope they don't fail. Figure in the cost of money you have invested in the well and septic as lost opportunity too. It could have been earning something, or reduced your mortgage and consequent interest charges.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Rural vs town costs, what are the numbers if you compare the cost of a well and septic system to monthly utility bills in town? Septic systems don't last forever and do need some periodic maintenance. Wells require electric usage and you hope they don't fail. Figure in the cost of money you have invested in the well and septic as lost opportunity too. It could have been earning something, or reduced your mortgage and consequent interest charges.

That is an interesting question. My town figures that town water and sewer are worth $10,000 per house unit and there are sewer and water bills to pay on top of that. Rural lots with a developed spring or well and a working septic are valued at $10,000 also and the owner has to stand all the maintenance costs. A new septic system to meet standard can cost $15,000 or more and wells drilled in the local Granite or blue ledge are not cheap. I honestly don't know who is getting the better deal or will have the better deal in the future.

 

[dave1949]

That is an interesting question. My town figures that town water and sewer are worth $10,000 per house unit and there are sewer and water bills to pay on top of that. Rural lots with a developed spring or well and a working septic are valued at $10,000 also and the owner has to stand all the maintenance costs. A new septic system to meet standard can cost $15,000 or more and wells drilled in the local Granite or blue ledge are not cheap. I honestly don't know who is getting the better deal or will have the better deal in the future.

If a well and septic cost $20,000 to install:
$20K at 4% annual for 30 years earns $24K in interest, plus you still have the initial $20K, $44K total.
$75/month for water and sewer? (I have no idea, really) for 30 years is $27K, plus that is relatively risk free in terms of failure and maintenance compared to a well and septic.

The property tax is a wash if both are valued at $10,000.

 

[ultrarunner]

The market is crazy where I live.

Inventory is short and homes are receiving multiple bids.

Tried to buy my neighbor's home from the bank... 15 people submitted acceptable bids and the bank comes back and invites the 15 to submit their best and final offer.... home was listed at 525k and sold for 800k cash.

I go to refi my home with my existing lender and the appraisal was a joke... they throw out all the high sales.

Then they tell me I have to pay down my loan to make it work and I agree... it is my only debt and I have credit score over 830.

All during the holidays I kept my fax machine on autodail... unbelievalbe how much documentation they require... who would have thought owning free and clear rental property would be an obstacle???

The final straw was this morning. Bank calls and said they have approved my loan accept my loan lock expired 7 days ago and I now have to come up with an extra $3000 to close...

I told them thanks but no thanks... they seemed surprised because everything is approved...

I'm old enough where I won't play their game. I actually feel better this afternoon than I have in anytime over the last 6 weeks.

One thing I learned is to never count on anything happening over the Christmas/New Year holidays.

PS... they have to refund my deposit of $600. I'm not holding my breath... they have 7 busines days to do it.

 

[kenmac]

Where exactly is the "heart of dixie", kenmac?

Alabama

 

[J F]

Thanks. :thumbsup:

 

[Pops15]

I don't know what the unemployment rate is for your area,but ours was at 9.3% jan 2011. Our new Governor said when he was elected that he wouldn,t accept a salary until the state got back to 5.2% employment. I don't know where we are at this time ,but the gov. still doesn't take a salary so, It's not at 5.2%. Gas prices here as of today reg. unleaded 319 per gal. My business is not even close to what was & may never be,but,I'll be just fine

Unemployment in this county was 10.3 in Oct 2012. That's the lowest it's been since May '09. Keep in mind the official figures don't count those who's unemployment benefits have run out or college grads that haven't found a job. The official unemployment numbers topped out at 15.9% in Jan '10. The real unemployment was estimated to have topped out around 23%!!!! Gas prices were down to $3.259 last I noticed. The county to the south just raised property taxes 27%. IL raised the state income tax 66% a couple years ago. Illinois sucks.

 

[MossflowerWoods]

You have too much on your plate. Plain and simple.

Have you ever read Dave Ramsey?

Yes I do. It is a recurring theme... Somehow (often with goodadvice from others) I always muddle through.

I've been told I am a Human Doing, not a Human Being... In the end, All of this stuff has to be done in some fashion. It is what God put me here to do, and I will find a way to accomplish my tasks.

I am familiar with Dave Ramsey... While I may not follow to the letter, I am not that far off regardless of opinions here on TBN...

David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

Doesn't really look like it from where I'm standing. Looks more like you make bad decisions and then stand back and throw money at them.
Sorry..... You're obviously a very good person, but that's the truth, or the way I see it.
It also looks to me that you have a lot to be thankful for.... a ton of things, starting with your health.

I'd say you calm down and make a list of what is really necessary and important and I'm not just talking about stuff either. Understand that it's up to you to decide this and not your wife or your kids. You know what best for your family, and you know what has to be done, and some of it is going to hurt a little. When that happens, just remind yourself and your family of exactly what you have and how lucky you are to have it.

It's going to be a long term project to get to where you think you need to be. Commit to that and stick with it. Worry about things you can control.
Things are not as bad as it seems, and if your wife is not willing to stick it out with you, well then, so be it. That's not what she agreed to when she "I do". You can't really control that now can you?
That's my :2cents: I really hope it didn't pi$$ you off David. I'm pretty sure you are the type of person that will come out the other side wondering what you were so upset about.

You cannot see the whole picture from where you are standing...

I've not had a credit card balance in decades, I pay them all off every month.

I just went 11 months unemployed followed by now just over 2 years of lower than normal income all while carrying 3 mortgages, and I did not touch my retirement accounts, nor my stock account that has been underwater for over 10 years...

Could I do that again? NO, I need to rebuild all my reserves.

We rarely go out to eat, and never extravagent. I have one car payment, at 0%, and I have one Tractor Payment. I own all four Harleys outright, as well as my F-150. We have no cable, we have no health clubs, etc. I pay for my kids music lessons, tithe at Church, and feed all my animals. There is no BS in my budget. No Starbucks.

Debt is a TOOL, if you do not manage it and use it correctly it makes you into a FOOL.

I agonize over some of these decisions, and I ask those ahead of me on this path for advice because I have no Father to ask, I am the oldest and most successful in my family (like ever) and not even my close friends truly understand what I do and am doing...

Yes, from where you are sitting I amy NOT look like a fiscal conservative, but I am VERY good at Stewarding over the resources God has bless me with, and there is much more to the pictue than you can see.

And NO. I am not pi$$ed off. Yes, I am a big boy and I will try not to ask questions I'm not willing to take a beating for. I too suspect this too shall pass and I will feel all the worry was baseless. BUt right now, this is a pretty crappy spot I'm standing in, and I want to chart the BEST path back to where I wish to be.

I appreciate the advice.
Be well,
David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

He needs some Fels Naptha Mouthwash!!!!

Isn't that a little harsh. It was just a suggestion. as a last, last last LAST resort. after you have sold your first born into slavery last resort.


Hey his Lil' Kioti cost just as much as my lil' Jd 5045E. and i bet he has more of his paid off.


A laugh in the face of doom is sometimes all you can do. You will muddle through you don't have any choice.

VT,

I loved the laugh. But I'd need to see receipts to prove your JD cost as little as my Kioti :laughing:... Just kidding...

Thank you for the humor.
David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

This thread has exploded. it is almost impossible to navigate bck to where I want to reply...

Thanks to all participating.

David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

I'd do some research on local values I agree it doesn't sound right .. Ladysmith, VA Home Values - Virginia | HOMES.com

That website is questionable in my book.

What is their source of data? I just paid $365k just over two years ago, and it says my property is only worth $248. I have a Bank appraisal just done for $410K, which by the way, if they had not cut my LAND value from the $225k of August 2010, down to $150K of Jan 13, we would be UNDER CONSTRUCTION! My HOUSE went from $140k to $265K with the remodel!

I would caution ANYONE using that website. It's accuracy is suspect sir.

I think the new double wide on 13 acres just down the street from me just sold for something between $269-289K...

David

 

[Barry 1]

42 acres of timber-Buy a sawmill and start building !

 

[RoyJackson]

There's only one answer then, Mossflower. Build it yourself! Or instead of a new second story, add onto the first with an addition.

I agree...and, if the house is in that poor a condition (roof leaking, etc), a fresh start might be worth it.
I suggest you look into modular homes (these are NOT mobile homes or doublewides). I've seen a few here in VT that were pretty nice.

 

[MossflowerWoods]

One thing to consider when borrowing for that dream home in the country is the future price of gas. It may well stay at $4.00 and even go to $8.00 or $12.00 and if it does then all parcels that are more then walking distance to a rail or bus line will drop in value by half or more. It won't make any difference if you don't have to commute in town to work the market will be set by those that do.

This is HUGE and much worse than we expected. My wife was driving well less than the 15K miles per year average. We put less than 80K miles on her car from July 05 to July 11. Her new car has 39K miles on it just since July 11. My commute (only 3-4 days per week) is 84 miles ONE WAY, my F-150 is getting 16 to 16.5 mpg... My monthly GASOLINE bill is outrageous...

But it is THOUSANDS of dollars to go buy another car, plus insurance, etc...

Excellent point.
David

 

[MossflowerWoods]

I agree...and, if the house is in that poor a condition (roof leaking, etc), a fresh start might be worth it.
I suggest you look into modular homes (these are NOT mobile homes or doublewides). I've seen a few here in VT that were pretty nice.

Roy,

I plan to build or have built, a new home up on the ridge behind the horse pasture someday (AFTER I profitably or alt least break even on my other two homes).

I'm in a modular now. It has its warts... the roof has two issues. #1 the dead guy was a cheapskate and he used poor shingles, and I suspect did it himself, parts of the roof have no felt underlayment. It is simply due for a new roof on one hand. The really BIG issue the roof has is partly due to modular (it is bolted together) and mostly due to poor workmanship of the guys doing the bolting together. one of the dormers was flipped to the back side, and they just cut a hole and bolted it down. I can see the shingles wedged between the 2x4's... of course it leaks...

One of the other dormers leaks also. Similar poor workmanship.

No matter what I do, the dormers MUST be removed and rebuilt correctly, I do not think they can be saved. At a minimum I will re-engineer them. Probably make them bigger, etc.

I want to fix these problems ONCE, and not spend more than appropriate.

David