Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

[JB4310]

An update...

This has all been very educational. But from you guys and from other discussions my brother and I have had.

My brother called a state weigh station, the state police, and the VDMV. They all said the same thing. They don't really care about the 'derated' number when they pull you over, they go straight to the axle ratings, which are generally shown correct. Even if the tag is pulled, they'll just look at the lugs and rim diameter and get the axle rating lickity split.

They then look in the door jam of the truck and find the GVWR. Then they add them together. They are looking for that magical 26k# number.

The BIGGEST wrinkle is that my brother's F350 is rated for 13k#. If he got this trailer or any other trailer with two 7k# axles, he would be in trouble at some point.

SOOOOOOOO, he has decided to pass on the good deal. It thought us a valuable lesson, though, because he had a new Leonard 24' 14k# dovetail all tee'd up...a trailer that would have also been 'illegal' for him to tow.

In reality, this trailer weighed ~4,600#. The 12k# 24' dovetail (with fenders...not deckover) he is NOW looking at purchasing weighs closer to 3,000#. So for getting much less trailer, he is only costing himself at most 500# in cargo carrying capacity. 28 feet would have been nice, but I am sure he will be able to make 24 feet work.

And he is, without a doubt, legal.

With that, I thank the brain trust with much appreciation for your collective insight. Where else could I have learned so much and gotten so many opinions in such a short amount of time? You guys are great.

Very sincerely,

Keith

You can go but we will stay and argue more :laughing:

I know we've had this crazy 10K trailer - 26K CGVW discussion before,
But I can't remember, do you go by the tag ratings or the actual weights.

Like with your brother's 13K truck and 14K trailer. If his actual weight was under 26,000K would that be legal???

JB

 

[KeithInSpace]

I am still here, but the trailer decision has been made by my brother.

His understanding from the authorities is that the 26k question is about ratings, not what you are carrying.

 

[downslope]

Well- did you get that online? Because the NC Driver's handbook online is WRONG! They only showed part a. of that law, they failed to include part b.

Here is the ACTUAL LAW from here-
Chapter 20

"(2a) Class A Motor Vehicle. A combination of motor vehicles that meets either of the following descriptions:

a. Has a combined GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

b. Has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds."


Great huh? No wonder people get so confused about all this when the state itself can't even get it right in their own Driver's Handbook:confused2:

All RED text above was so colored by me for clarification.:thumbsup:

We have property in NC too, so that's why I tried to read up on this stuff before moving there.

I know you're saying the manual is wrong but even if it is I don't think it makes a difference. You should read ALL of the statute that pertains. The section of the statutes you're quoting (20-4.01) is only the definitions preamble, and it's only defining types of vehicles, not types of licenses.

If you read down a little further to 20-7, that is where they describe the actual classes of non-CDL licenses and what you're allowed to drive with them.

20‑79(a) The classes of regular drivers licenses and the motor vehicles that can be driven with each class of license are:

(1) Class A. A Class A license authorizes the holder to drive any of the following:
a. A Class A motor vehicle that is exempt under G.S. 20‑37.16 from the commercial drivers license requirements.

b. A Class A motor vehicle that has a combined GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

(2) Class B. A Class B license authorizes the holder to drive any Class B motor vehicle that is exempt under G.S. 20‑37.16 from the commercial drivers license requirements.

(3) Class C. A Class C license authorizes the holder to drive any of the following:

a. A Class C motor vehicle that is not a commercial motor vehicle.

b. When operated by a volunteer member of a fire department, a rescue squad, or an emergency medical service (EMS) in the performance of duty, a Class A or Class B fire‑fighting, rescue, or EMS motor vehicle or a combination of these vehicles.

c. A combination of noncommercial motor vehicles that have a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds but less than 26,001 pounds. This sub‑subdivision does not apply to a Class C license holder less than 18 years of age.

So there you have it, it is spelling it out exactly the way I interpreted it from the manual. Even with just a Class C license you can drive non-commercial combinations between 10K and 26K as long as not under 18 years of age.

As far as the original poster and his brother goes, yes he would need a CDL if the truck was 13K and the trailer was 14K, unless he was a farmer staying within 150 miles.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Around here the go by the ratings, not actual weight.

They also look at the data plate, not the axles as was stated by the op.

Chris

 

[CHDinCT]

Mine was originally registered over 20 years ago, and now I just renew by mail. So I can't really help you. You'll have to contact DMV (good luck).

I never had to have a trailer inspected, even my 10k dumper and 9K flatbed, both of these have camp trailer registrations. I know that's weird but that's how they do it here if it's not commercial. The last trailer I registered was the flat bed a few years ago and I don't think I had a title, just filled out the regular reg form from what I remember, but I didn't call it home made.

Once you put brakes on a home made, it might have to be inspected??? but I'm not sure.

I actually have the cell phone number of a high up commercial dmv inspector, but I don't think he'd want me giving it out.

JB

Thanks for replying. Finding out what is or is not possible on re-rating a trailer in CT is tough for whatever reason. I think I'm going to stop by a few trailer repair/sales places to see what they can tell me. Maybe if I have them do the brakes, they can get it re-rated for me. If not, I can do them myself but I don't want to put a lot of money into a trailer that can't be rated for what it's capable of.

 

[KeithInSpace]

...They also look at the data plate, not the axles...

There was some mixed input on that from the authorities on this issue, but the state police person my bother spoke to was the one that said he'd be suspect of the de-rated GVWR if he pulled my brother over. I guess it depends on what side of the bed he woke up on.

Let's be honest. If you have a trailer that is built like a brick poo-house, CLEARLY has 7k# axles, has the individual axle ratings of 7k# listed on the data plate, then has a GVWR of 9,990#, then anyone with a brain will know something is up.

If my brother doesn't get bitten by one thing (being good to 26k# by having a de-rated trailer), he'll be bitten by another thing: Overloading his trailer.

The Kubota MX5100 with loader and 9.5 foot backhoe is no joke. It will fill a trailer. If the officer-in-question thinks about it too hard, he'll realize that there is NO WAY the trailer weighs less than 4k# and there is NO WAY the tractor weighs less than 6k#. Put 2-and-2 together, and there's a problem.

There is an easy way to side-step the problem: Buy the correct trailer for the situation.

 

[Sterff]

If you have a 14K trailer rated at 9990 GVW and only haul up to 9990 GVW then I would assume there is nothing they can do about it.

 

[JB4310]

If you have a 14K trailer rated at 9990 GVW and only haul up to 9990 GVW then I would assume there is nothing they can do about it.

Of course, you're right, but op's brothers tractor at 8500LBS I think he said, plus the weight of the trailer would be over, even deducting tongue weight.

JB.

 

[flyingcow]

i still would re-issue trailer as homemade. Also, keep in mind the rating on the trailer is different than registered weight. i could put 16,000lbs of registration on a two axle trailer, that is "stamped" as a 12,000lb trailer. The "law" might pick up on this if you're stopped. Maybe not.

 

[JB4310]

Would be curious what the coupler is rated at, don't forget everything has to be rated, tires, springs, wheels, even the U-bolts and shackles. of course that means the frame.

I know I went through this with my trailer, it obviously has two 5200 axles but the rest is built like a 8K trailer. though they call it 9K cause they are factoring in the tongue weight :confused2:

I have no idea why, they would do that.

JB

 

[ditzel]

Your lucky you dont live in "dirty jersey", this state sucks #@%!

State of New Jersey - Motor Vehicle Commission

 

[Soundguy]

DOT / MOT would impound your trailer and fine your butt bigtime here. Would be a really expensive lesson.

All depends on where you are.

in florida, lots of trailers get sold with no title for on the farm work.. may go thru 5-6 owners and never see pavement.. then one day some guy buys it and wants to tag it.. has no paperwork other than a bill of sale or an affidavit of sale for tax purposes. Doing it that way you have to go weight it at a certified scal like a cat scale, then tag it as a homade.. base it's gvrw on it's axles and weight.. etc. Happens OFTEN here. DOT never blinks an eye... I do know some will ask you to put some sort of 'owner' number on it for ID purposes.. but even then.. many tag offices never ask either..

they will even give you a temp tag to haul the trailer down to the cat scale so you can get it weighed, then get a permanent tag.

all this si for trailers over about 3k anything small needs no weight slip..

soundguy

 

[newbury]

An update...

This has all been very educational. But from you guys and from other discussions my brother and I have had.

My brother called a state weigh station, the state police, and the VDMV. They all said the same thing. They don't really care about the 'derated' number when they pull you over, they go straight to the axle ratings, which are generally shown correct. Even if the tag is pulled, they'll just look at the lugs and rim diameter and get the axle rating lickity split.

They then look in the door jam of the truck and find the GVWR. Then they add them together. They are looking for that magical 26k# number.

The BIGGEST wrinkle is that my brother's F350 is rated for 13k#. If he got this trailer or any other trailer with two 7k# axles, he would be in trouble at some point.

<snip>

Thanks for the info Keith, I had called the State, local, and DMV and only got the run-around when I was trying to determine if I needed a CDL for my 12K trailer. I was told by a trailer place that anything over 10K needed a CDL.

Don't know, I don't understand why they wrote it that way. I live in SC but have land in NC, I tow over 10k rated trailers there all the time, but I'm good with my SC license, which is just a regular license.

If I move to NC someday I will have to upgrade my license. Furthermore I can find nothing online that explains what is different, in NC, as far as testing to get a class A instead of their normal class C (for cars etc) license:confused2:

And thanks Skyco for that data point, I occasionally go thru NC and many other states and I hope my Va license will get me by.

 

[KeithInSpace]

...I hope my Va license will get me by.

The tongue on my trailer reads 10,500#. I pull my BX and implements on it...probably 5,000# total. Trailer weighs ~2,500#. I have multiple 10k# d-ring tie-down points bolted to the frame with Grade 8 bolts and use Gr70 chain, 2 over-center binders, and 2 ratchet binders.

I would not hesitate to pull my trailer through NC for even a moment.

I'd love to get pulled over. Honest. It would prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that some laws actually make people stupid.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

PJ worked with me. I bought a 14k dump. My F350 is rated at 13k so my GCWR was 27k and I didn't want to do CDL. PJ kindly issued a new sticker and rated my trailer at 12950 and told me it was legal because it came from the factory.

I suspect I could get them to put the trailer back to 14k if I needed them to but to be honest I do not need to haul an 8k payload in a 12ft dump.

As a side note, I think you will enjoy your PJ.. It's a brand that I have been very happy with.

 

[Sterff]

Im in the process of buying a new PJ 14K trailer and I was told by my dealer it can be registered at 9990 for $25. PJ sends the sticker to the dealer. If I ever want to change it back I was told I can.

 

[Soundguy]

good deal... right fromt he horses mouth so to speak.
thanks for posting.

soundguy

 

[tcartwri]

Im in the process of buying a new PJ 14K trailer and I was told by my dealer it can be registered at 9990 for $25. PJ sends the sticker to the dealer. If I ever want to change it back I was told I can.

This would be the proper way to do it. Just pulling the tag off of it and declaring it a home built is asking for trouble.

 

[JB4310]

Im in the process of buying a new PJ 14K trailer and I was told by my dealer it can be registered at 9990 for $25. PJ sends the sticker to the dealer. If I ever want to change it back I was told I can.

So even though you register it for only 9990 could you still carry more?

Obviously the trailer can handle it, and the tag says 14K, so unless they inspected the registration, you could probably get away with it. They can't really say your a hazard, and as long as you didn't cross that 26K combined gross threshold seems like just a paper technicality???

If you were in an accident, they might scrutinize you more of course.

JB

 

[Sterff]

So even though you register it for only 9990 could you still carry more?

Obviously the trailer can handle it, and the tag says 14K, so unless they inspected the registration, you could probably get away with it. They can't really say your a hazard, and as long as you didn't cross that 26K combined gross threshold seems like just a paper technicality???

If you were in an accident, they might scrutinize you more of course.

JB

I would say you could get away with it until you get pulled over by DOT. Then when they weigh you, you better hope it's not over 9990 GVW or you will get fined I'd imagine. The only reason I want to set mine to 9990 is to avoid combination plates.

In PA it would cost me $405 a year in registration plus Id have to inspect the trailer twice a year (additional $100).