Tig break test.

[deereman75]

I wouldnt mind getting a little el cheepo 110v stick welder, in addition to my big lincoln, for portability and the ability to use anywhere. But due to there proformance, I wouldnt spend more then $10.

 

[rockinmywaypa]

To rankrank1 I have to admit that I have no idea what you are talking about other than that it probably relates to sticking your rod when starting an arc. I only ever cared about duty cycle and in the range where I'll be doing most of my repairs it is around 50 to 60% which is good enough for me. I'm not a professional welder and don't do structural welding but I have been using welders for 30 plus yrs and when I repair a piece of farm equipment it stays fixed. I'm going to pay attention to how often my rod sticks while I'm getting used to using it. In the future I'm going to pay attention to the numbers you've mentioned and see how the different welders compare. Obviously it will explain why some machines are so cheap and why you pay more for top of the line machines.
It's pretty darn hot out today and taking pictures will be enough to work up a sweat so maybe I'll get them for Deereman.
I was in to TSC to see what argon tanks would cost and the dinky little lg size was 220 to buy and 61 to refill, it comes empty too so 281 out of the gate. I haven't called praxair to see about rentals. I used to rent oxygen and acetelene and hated paying that bill. I switched to propane which seems to last forever, and purchased the oxygen tank which was about the same cost as 2 and a half years rent and I'm now years ahead on that one so I have some shopping to do.

 

[deereman75]

I would go to somewhere other then tsc, you would probably get a better price at a place like air liquide or praxair. Not only that, they will often give you a discount when buying a tank.

 

[dstig1]

OCV= Open circuit Voltage. If you turn on the welder and put a volt meter across the 2 cable tips, this is what it will read. The higher the OCV, the easier it is to start a rod, and especially with the stubborn ones like 7018.

It is pretty hard to run into the duty cycle on a stick welder as you have to stop and change rods every minute or so, and few hobby/farm folks will be welding big or long enough sections to keep running rod after rod, nonstop.

 

[rankrank1]

To rankrank1 I have to admit that I have no idea what you are talking about other than that it probably relates to sticking your rod when starting an arc...I'm not a professional welder and don't do structural welding but I have been using welders for 30 plus yrs and when I repair a piece of farm equipment it stays fixed. ...

Yep thats it. In stick welding the higher the OCV the easier the initial arc strikes are with out the rod sticking. While the OCV controls the intial arc strike easiness your rod gap to workpiece controls the actual voltage when you are actually welding. Generally speaking your voltage will be somewhere around only 30 volts when actually welding with the proper arc gap.

In the olden days (1930's - the mid 1950's) it was not uncommon for many welders to have an even higher OCV than 80 volts, but the UL finally stepped in a set the threshold at 80 volts max as too many people were electrocuting themselves. An OCV of 80 volts will not kill most healthy people if you happen to be wet and grounded, but will still give you a good tingle. Now if you happen to have a weak heart or a pacemaker then that is a different story as even 80 OCV could be lethal.

You sound quite experienced so the lower OCV will not be as big as an issue for you as it is for most newbies. In my case that little 115 volt welder with only a 50 amp output and low 45 volt OCV was my very first welder so I really struggled with it. To make matters worse the LWS sold me 1/16" diameter 6010 rods as my first set of rods. 6010 is DC only and my little transformer was AC only so I struggled even more - not to even mention the flimsiness of a 1/16" diameter rod. It is funny now, but if I that guy that recommended the 6010 still worked there, I just might have a few choice words for him. Of course, 20 plus years ago the internet was not out there to research things so I had to learn this lesson the hard way.

 

[deereman75]

I wouldnt be surprised if my lincoln ac 225s has a higher OCV, that thing is atleast 30 years old, and is very easy to strike the arc.

 

[rankrank1]

I wouldnt mind getting a little el cheepo 110v stick welder, in addition to my big lincoln, for portability and the ability to use anywhere. But due to there proformance, I wouldnt spend more then $10.

Well my little el cheapo was a simple fixed setting 50 amp transformer and I am talking over 20 years ago to boot. There are quite powerful 115 volt inverters out there for $225 or so now that are better options.

While how long these Inverters will actually last is still up for debate (My guess is if you get 10 years out of an inverter then you will be lucky- where a transformer will last 75 years or more). I will say that if I was a tradesman that moved from little job to little job then an inverters portability would be a huge bonus. Also if I was a house renter or lived in an apartment or townhouse then I would also consider one. If I did buy one though it would have to be the dual voltage capable one that puts out like 100 amps on a 115 volt input power and 140-150 amps when 230 volts input power is available.

 

[rankrank1]

I wouldnt be surprised if my lincoln ac 225s has a higher OCV, that thing is atleast 30 years old, and is very easy to strike the arc.

To my knowledge all Lincoln AC-225 are 79.?? volt OCV - or in other words a few tenths under the 80 max threshold. I think the UL installed their max threshold in the early 1950's at the latest. I am not sure of an exact date as that is long before my time.

The Lincoln AC-225 is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year so that puts its debut at 1961 so definitely after the UL mandate. Volt amp curves are Sometimes available in the owners manual.

On the Lincoln site, Run your model and 4 digit code tag code for the proper manual and see for yourself if the info is in the manual. My Lincoln AC-225 from the early 1970's is 79 volt OCV.

 

[deereman75]

Hmm I didnt think that rule was in place so early. I think they have switched from copper to aluminum wire in the transformer in the lincoln tombstones, and miller thunderbolt/hobart stickmate, and that lowers the duty cycle and duribility, so older ones are better.

 

[rankrank1]

I think they have switched from copper to aluminum wire in the transformer in the lincoln tombstones, and miller thunderbolt/hobart stickmate, and that lowers the duty cycle and duribility, so older ones are better.

While I agree with you that the older ones are better in most cases it has nothing to do with copper at least on the Lincoln AC-225. Every Lincoln AC-225 ever built was with an aluminum wound transformer. The duty cycle on every Lincoln AC-225 ever built is only 20% at every setting except 75 amps which is 100% duty cycle on 75 amp setting only (reason it is circled on your faceplate). The 75 amp setting utilizes the primary windings inside the transformer only so it is capable of 100%. Settings below 75 amps revert back to 20% duty cycle since the smaller secondary's inside the transformer are utilized on every other welder setting. That said many people have welded with these old Linclon's with total disregard to duty cycle and never hurt them.

Lincoln AC-180 were copper wound transformers and lack a cooling fan (otherwise they look almost identical to an AC-225).

Miller Thunderbolt's were copper wound in beginning and switched to aluminum somewhere along the line (maybe when they went from top crank to front crank models????). The duty cycles are different on the Miller Thunderbolt (and Hobart Stickmate clones). While only 20% at wide open, as you decrease amps the duty cycle does continually increase. In essence anything under about 100 amps is 100% duty cycle on the Miller Thunderbolt.

Lastly, not saying the Miller is better. I own both a vintage top crank AC/DC Thunderbolt and a vintage AC-225. I think the Lincoln is stronger on AC than the Miller is on AC. I can not compare DC capability as my Lincoln lacks that option.