Quick question...

[MountainMomma]

Looking at Kubota's line and am seriously thinking of buying a garden tractor tomorrow... but was reading threads here and came across a term that I can't figure out.

What is a CUT?

Here's a quote: "he pushes the Cub Cadet garden tractors over the Kubota garden units, but pushes the Kubota CUTs over the Cubs...."

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/general-lawn-garden/34411-who-makes-best-garden-tractor.html

TIA!

 

[bp fick]

Looking at Kubota's line and am seriously thinking of buying a garden tractor tomorrow... but was reading threads here and came across a term that I can't figure out.

What is a CUT?

Here's a quote: "he pushes the Cub Cadet garden tractors over the Kubota garden units, but pushes the Kubota CUTs over the Cubs...."

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/general-lawn-garden/34411-who-makes-best-garden-tractor.html

TIA!

Compact Utility Tractor
Sub compact Utility Tractor = subcut

 

[MountainMomma]

Thanks so much!

Can anyone summarize the basic pros/cons of a CUT vs. Garden Tractor for the following uses (and give ballpark prices in round numbers)?

Our needs:

• Mowing, first and foremost, and around young fruit trees and on slopes
• Also, hauling rocks and other loads around for landscaping purposes
• SOME snow removal in winters
• SOME road grading as needed in the next years
• POSSIBLY tilling, but we're open to renting a rototiller once a year for veggies and flowers instead

 

[Grandad4]

First, let's clear up "garden tractor" vs. "utility tractor", and then we'll fill in the middle ground with "compact utility tractor". These are my definitions... no doubt somebody will be able to improve on them, but they should suffice to explain, I hope.

Garden tractor... A heavy-duty riding lawn mower. Mainly for mowing, but can pull some light duty attachments. Gas engine. Light duty drive system. Usually no power steering or hydraulic system; usually 2 wheel drive. Maybe weighs 500 - 800 lbs. Price point: typically $ 2,500 - 5,000. (Note: There are low-end and high-end models with bargain or premium features, but this describes the "average").

Utility tractor... A farm tractor used for general chores in an agricultural setting. Doesn't do "lawn mowing". Diesel engine, large wheels with farm tires, may be 4 wheel drive. Weighs 3,000 - 8,000 lbs. Has enough power to pull a house down (literally... there are YouTube vids to prove it). Power steering, hydraulic lift system for implements, power take off for running implements. Has a roll-bar (ROPS) to protect operator in a roll over. May have a cab with heat, air, etc. Often has a front end loader. Price point: $10,000 to $50,000. Ditto above comment about low-end and high-end models.

Obviously a huge difference, even though they are both called "tractors". So, what would someone get if they didn't have a real "farm", but still needed to look after 5, 10 or 50 acres in the country? Presto, we have a "Compact utility tractor". Smaller than the farm machine, but big enough to do some serious work. They can be as big as many farm tractors or nearly as small as a garden tractor.

Your work needs precisely describe what a small "CUT" is designed for. Actually, the smallest ones, sub-CUT's, are perfect for someone with 2-5 acres. You can add attachments for clearing snow, mowing, tilling, grading a road, or whatever. A new subcut will cost around $8,000 - 10,000, just for the tractor, and the attachments will be extra.

So you'd spend 5 times as much for a subcut as a garden tractor. Do you get something at least 5 times better? Yup. Your garden tractor won't pick up 500 lbs of rocks and haul them around in a loader bucket, but the subcut will. It will also grade the potholes out of your dirt road and plow or blow the snow in the winter. Last weekend, I put a post-hole auger on the back of my subcut and made holes for a neighbor's gate posts. Tomorrow, I'll take the auger off and put the mower back on for mowing. I don't know anyone who has one that didn't think it was a good investment.

Well, enough of my ever so humble opinions. No doubt others will add their comments. I hope this helps a bit.

 

[MountainMomma]

Thanks so much! I'm going to look at the Steiner and Ventrac tomorrow... pretty excited. I think this is the right direction for us to head after two months of praying and researching. I am VERY grateful for this forum: I would NEVER have known about these machines otherwise, and I think they are just the right size for us!

 

[sawduster98]

Well said, Grandad!
The price difference between CUTs and lawn tractors can be staggering but you'll never regret it. You'll wonder how you ever got along without it!
I bought 7 acres a couple years ago along with a CUT and have put in a driveway, leveled sites for my house and barn, cut swails and ditches, tilled a garden, spread countless loads of stone and topsoil, plowed snow, graded the lawn, spread seed, moved pallets, and on and on...
Another thing is CUTs hold their value much better than garden tractors :thumbsup: Good luck!

 

[k0ua]

Here is John Deere's latest entry into the sub-CUT or SCUT market.
no one has seen any of these yet, but they have some premium features that others in the class do not have. (like position control among others)
I am sure these will come at premium prices:laughing: But Kubota, Massey Ferguson, New Holland and others all have products in this class. I have only 7 very steep wooded acres only of which 2 or so is navigable, but I decided to go a little bigger for the extra lifting power and have not regretted it. Good luck in your buying decision.

JohnDeere Launches New Line of Sub-Compact Tractors

James K0UA

 

[richamor]

In addition to the Steiner and Ventrac, I'd suggest looking at a Kubota BX series.

 

[oldnslo]

Steiner and Ventrac are both good machines. The Steiner was originally designed for working on hills. Only down side is you must use their attachments. I think the attachments from some Steiners will fit Ventrac and Vice versa.

Only comments or complaints I have heard about these are:

Steiner: The Hydraulic and speed controls move either towards or away from you when you turn. Check this out when you test drive them. May be an issue depending on your stature.

Ventrac: The controls are on the seat pan but the all of the linkage tends to wear out and require adjustment or replacing.

Roy

 

[MountainMomma]

Thanks, all!

Reporting back: I went and spent several hours watching Ventrac videos, and then went and drove one up a hill and then spent hours talking to the dealer to get a feel for the dealership.

The dealer was GREAT. He patiently explained to me the ins and outs of the tractor and helped me to drive one. He explained prices and financing (they have a much more reasonable rise in price if you do finance, and 0% for three years if you do finance. VERY attractive compared to Kubota or Kioti, who make several thousands of $$s difference between cash and financed).

About half way thru the talk, he VOLUNTEERED to drive out to our place (an hour away over some significant mountains) with two different models of the tractors and several add-on attachments and give a demo to my husband. On top of this, the dealership rents ALL of the attachments (which we can easily transport in our mini-van--a real plus since we don't yet have a farm truck that is road worthy) so if we want, say, to bushhog, we can just rent a $3500 attachment for $200/day and do it all in one weekend! I was pretty impressed with all this.

End result: we are buying a Ventrac 4000 series tractor! We'll probably end up with this one, which we're getting at a discount ($1500 off) because it's slightly used (50 hours) but still under full warranty. I truly believe that this will be a safe, long-lasting, and effective tractor for us, given our unique topography, projects, and abilities.

I would NEVER have known to buy this tractor except for this forum and the excellent thread entitled "what's the BEST garden tractor"? MANY thanks to all who contribute their advice and wisdom here!

 

[devildog1]

Happy for you. You should have looked better at the BX series from Kubota, much stronger machine and more capable. Good Luck.
DevilDog

 

[MountainMomma]

Thanks! I actually did look at the BX last month, drove one, and then Thursday on the way to the Ventrac dealer, talked to the local BX dealer who knows my local terrain. He flat refused to sell me the BX machine because of safety issues on 30 degree hills. I was grateful.

We have a man who owns an excavator business just down the road. He charges only $25/hour to do bigger excavating jobs, and we've already hired him to do that ones that we NEED to start. After those, there aren't many jobs that we foresee on this homestead of ours that would need heavy equipment. Since we have hilly ground and plan to farm cows (neighbor's cows, renting out our fields and he owns several conventional tractors) and fruit trees (read: mowing an orchard on slopes) only part time, and are having our fences built by others who have the equipment at reasonable rates, this tractor seems like a great one for us when all we have left is minor landscaping needs (dragging around rocks and dirt, grading, etc.) and mowing around many fruit trees, as well as bi-seasonal knocking down of larger fields.

 

[jake98]

Good luck with the Ventrac. You're aware that they don't use commonly available attachments, right? Lots of folks recommend renting attachments, but most of us like to own them.

 

[MountainMomma]

By "commonly available" you mean "non propitiatory" right? Well, they have 30 attachments that all seem to do the functions of the sub-CUTs... and I guess for now, we don't mind renting. We MAY become tractor junkies over time (it's happened before with fish tanks to us, when we never thought it would :confused2 but for now, since we're neither handy nor have a large budget... well, I guess it seems for now that Ventrac is a rugged machine that does all we need it to AND safest, from what I know. It seems to work for us, but we may come back and eat humble pie here, ya never know.

And just for the record, when comparing prices of Kubota and Kioto attachments, the prices seemed really comparable for new... and because we are not really mechanically handy, at least, not yet, we'd be buying new.

 

[devildog1]

Well you did do your homework and obviously researched quite well, so congrats on the Ventrac, I believe it will serve you well.
DevilDog

 

[jake98]

Yeah, that's what I meant, you're tying yourselves to Ventrac attachments. With slopes, that's not a bad way to go, they're supposed to be the best for sloped ground work. Again, good luck with it! Are you getting a bucket loader for the rock/road work? (you'll need it to get the rental attachments out of the minivan too, right?)

 

[LBrown59]

1*

In addition to the Steiner and Ventrac, I'd suggest looking at a Kubota BX series.

1*So do I .

You should have looked better at the BX series from Kubota, much stronger machine and more capable.

2*That's true.

 

[Grandad4]

Congratulations, MountainMomma, on your purchase. Given the topography of your place, that should be a very capable machine. I have looked at their displays at some county fairs, and they make a very unique and well-designed product. It sounds like you've got a good dealer too! Here are a couple of suggestions or ideas; maybe they will be helpful.

1. Plan to block out some time to get familiar with how your new machine works. Don't wait until you're in a time crunch to get something done; that's when you're in a hurry and likely to make a mistake. With equipment like this, mistakes can be deadly. Learn how it operates on your terrain. Maybe your dealer will help with all this.
2. Above all, learn the limits of the machine. What is safe to do and what to avoid. As new tractor users with some rugged terrain, you are definitely in the "high risk" category right now, but with some experience, you'll soon be "pros".
3. Please keep us up to date on your progress. It would help other potential tractor owners to hear how the Ventrac works out at your place. There are lots of new Kubota, Deere, Kioti, etc., owners sharing their experiences; a new Ventrac owner is also most welcome!

All the best of success with that new Ventrac! If you'd care to share some pictures when you take delivery, they'll be appreciated.

 

[Don87]

Thanks! I actually did look at the BX last month, drove one, and then Thursday on the way to the Ventrac dealer, talked to the local BX dealer who knows my local terrain. He flat refused to sell me the BX machine because of safety issues on 30 degree hills. I was grateful.

We have a man who owns an excavator business just down the road. He charges only $25/hour to do bigger excavating jobs, and we've already hired him to do that ones that we NEED to start. After those, there aren't many jobs that we foresee on this homestead of ours that would need heavy equipment. Since we have hilly ground and plan to farm cows (neighbor's cows, renting out our fields and he owns several conventional tractors) and fruit trees (read: mowing an orchard on slopes) only part time, and are having our fences built by others who have the equipment at reasonable rates, this tractor seems like a great one for us when all we have left is minor landscaping needs (dragging around rocks and dirt, grading, etc.) and mowing around many fruit trees, as well as bi-seasonal knocking down of larger fields.

That's a good man. He didn't risk your safety, just to make a sale.

 

[TripleR]

I would be interested in seeing pictures upon arrival as well as in action; sounds like an interesting machine.