Using Backhoe PB Loop for 3pt Splitter

CHDinCT · Mar 8, 2011

Seems this question comes up often enough but I couldn't find an answer to my specific question so here goes and thanks in advance for the help.

I have a small 3PH wood splitter I ran from the rear remotes I had on my old BX1860. I have since traded up to a BX25. Given it comes standard with a backhoe, it has the power beyond loop near the top link bracket. However, somewhat unusually, it has three hookups for the backhoe, Pressure in, Power beyond (pressure out), and return to tank.

I'm looking to hook the splitter into the PB loop and naturally assumed I should plug the pressure in line to the pressure in on the splitter valve and use the PB or pressure out for the splitter return line hook up. But, would it be of any benefit safety wise to plumb the splitter return line into the BH tank port? Not really sure if I should consider the return line on the splitter to be full pressure or a low pressure type return like would come out of the FEL valve, etc. Seems when I'm not operating the splitter, the return line would have full pressure, but when I extend or retract the cylinder, that line would see low pressure return, no?

Which hook up is most recommended and are there any other caveats I should take into consideration? Thanks again.

J_J · Mar 8, 2011

Use the PB outlet for pressure to the IN port on the log splitter valve, and the out flow from the valve goes to tank.

If you will be using the 3pt, check the Out pressure rating on the log splitter valve. If it is not up around 3000, you will need a log splitter valve with a PB port. If you need the 3pt, then the PB from a log splitter valve would go to the 3pt, and then to tank, and that completes the loop.

If that is a low end log splitter valve, and is the last valve in the system, then the OUT port could go to tank, if you do not use the 3pt.

J_J · Mar 8, 2011

With the BH hooked up, the PB from the BH is going to the 3pt, and the fluid from the cyl out port is going to tank. Having PB on the BH valve means that the valve can pass, and maintain full pressure. The basic log splitter valve OUT port in most cases goes to tank , and is low pressure.

wvpolekat · Mar 8, 2011

J_J said:
With the BH hooked up, the PB from the BH is going to the 3pt, and the fluid from the cyl out port is going to tank. Having PB on the BH valve means that the valve can pass, and maintain full pressure. The basic log splitter valve OUT port in most cases goes to tank , and is low pressure.

So, in this case, you have 3 lines? Pump --> IN, PB ---> other circuits, Tank ---> Tank. So, how/where would one plumb the tank line in? Tee into current tank line on loader valve?

CHDinCT · Mar 8, 2011

OK, I'm starting to get a headache

. JJ if I boil down what you,re saying, I should connect the log splitter out port to the tank return line normally used by the BH, correct? And if I hook it up this way, the 3PH won't be operable because there's no power beyond line feeding the 3PH?

Thinking about this makes me nervous as I'd expect you shouldn't operate the tractor with the BH off and the PB loop not plumbed together. I didn't think about this before making my initial post above.

As far as the log splitter valve, it is rated for 3000 psi and has a relief valve set at that pressure, but the tractor only puts out about 1800 psi.

My long run plan is to mount a dual spool valve and add two sets of remotes, but I thought I could hook up the splitter to the PB loop in the interim. Maybe I should go to plan B straight away. :laughing:

wvpolekat · Mar 8, 2011

As long as you give the fluid/pressure someplace to go, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing. You just don't want to take the loop out completely.

The PB is for high pressure beyond that valve, so if you are not feeding it with anything, it will just sit there. The fluid will go like this, pump---->log splitter valve---->tank. With no pressure going downstream to the 3ph.

personally, I would get a valve that would allow me to keep the 3PH plumbed in.

CHDinCT · Mar 10, 2011

Well, I just ordered the QC's and fittings I'll need to plumb the log splitter into the PB circuit. After doing some more searching and reading, it appears there are lots of guys who set up their splitters by plumbing the splitter out port into the power beyond port on the tractor with no ill effects. Seems there is some, at least hypothetical, risk that when you operate a down stream valve, e.g. 3PH, the out port of the splitter valve could see full pump pressure which it is not designed for. Nevertheless, there doesn't appear to be any reports of splitter valve failure that I can find.

As a precaution, when I want to use the FEL (which is probably upstream of the splitter valve anyway) with the splitter attached (usually when transporting a load of split wood to my pile), I'll just shut down and remove the splitter from the PB loop. As far as 3PH usage, the most I'll be doing is adjusting the splitter's height up and down some. Will report back once I've hooked it up and tested it out.

J_J · Mar 10, 2011

CHDinCT,

You said, it appears there are lots of guys who set up their splitters by plumbing the splitter out port into the power beyond port on the tractor with no ill effects.

It does not make sense what you are saying. Nobody plumbs the out port of a log splitter valve into the PB port of a valve. The out port of a log splitter should go to tank. The PB port is a pressure port. If you put the log splitter valve in series with the 3pt, then if the 3pt were to lift a heavy load and cause high pressure to build, you risk blowing the log splitter valve. You might not have a reason to lift anything more than the log splitter itself, and that light load would not build up high pressure, but, it still does not take much pressure to affect the seals.

Can you draw out exactly what you want to do?

If you have at least one remote with pressure, then plug the log splitter into the remote, and run the log splitter valve OUT hose to a return to tank line, and you are done,

CHDinCT · Mar 10, 2011

J_J said:
CHDinCT,

You said, it appears there are lots of guys who set up their splitters by plumbing the splitter out port into the power beyond port on the tractor with no ill effects.

It does not make sense what you are saying. Nobody plumbs the out port of a log splitter valve into the PB port of a valve. The out port of a log splitter should go to tank. The PB port is a pressure port. If you put the log splitter valve in series with the 3pt, then if the 3pt were to lift a heavy load and cause high pressure to build, you risk blowing the log splitter valve. You might not have a reason to lift anything more than the log splitter itself, and that light load would not build up high pressure, but, it still does not take much pressure to affect the seals.

Can you draw out exactly what you want to do?

If you have at least one remote with pressure, then plug the log splitter into the remote, and run the log splitter valve OUT hose to a return to tank line, and you are done,

JJ, I follow what you're saying and I realize that in a typical log splitter set up, the return, or out, port goes to the tank. I can hook it up either way - to tank or PB - on my BX since the BH uses both connections, but if I plumb the splitter out port to the tank in line, I will loose 3PH functionality and since I can't find anyone who's had issue plumbing their splitter to the PB hose, I've decided to try it that way. I don't have any aux remotes at the rear, only the PB QC's for the backhoe.

J_J · Mar 11, 2011

CHDinCT,

Does your BH valve have a PB outlet. Some BH's have three hoses, one for pressure, one for expended fluid, and a PB outlet for passing fluid downstream.

CHDinCT · Mar 11, 2011

J_J said:
CHDinCT,

Does your BH valve have a PB outlet. Some BH's have three hoses, one for pressure, one for expended fluid, and a PB outlet for passing fluid downstream.

Yes, has all three and I'm buying the QC's to hook it up to the PB outlet or the tank in line so I can go either way. I will start by hooking the splitter out into the PB hose and if that causes any issues, I can hook the splitter out to the tank in line. Just waiting on Discount Hydraulic Hose to ship the QC's I need.

J_J · Mar 11, 2011

Somehow, we have a communication problem. Disconnect the BH hose. Connect a hose into the PB outlet and the other end of that same goes to the log splitter valve IN port. The PB outlet is your pressure source. The OUT of the log splitter valve should go to tank.

CHDinCT · Apr 7, 2011

OK, been a while but I thought I'd close the loop on this thread. Mounted my 3PH woodsplitter to my BX25 using the backhoe pressure in and power beyond quick connects and it works just fine. I've been careful not to create max pressure on the 3PH or FEL with the splitter spliced into the BH Powerbeyond loop just in case. I raise the 3PH to a comfortable working height before hooking up the splitter. After that, I really don't need many other hydraulic functions. Here's a few cell phone pic's for anyone interested.

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J_J · Apr 7, 2011

Glad you got it fixed to your satisfaction. Thanks for posting back.

CHDinCT · Apr 7, 2011

No problem JJ, I hate when people ask questions and then never come back to say how they made out. Took me a while to find a reason to take the BH off and hook up the splitter. Thanks for your help.

EastBerkshireCustoms · Apr 7, 2011

How do you like the dual way splitter? Could you possibly post some more pic's up of the 'mechanicals' so I can fab one up?

CHDinCT · Apr 8, 2011

EastBerkshireCustoms said:
How do you like the dual way splitter? Could you possibly post some more pic's up of the 'mechanicals' so I can fab one up?

E-B-C, not sure what you mean by mechanicals? The splitter is the Powerhorse 13 ton model from Northerntool if you want more info on it. I like the bi-directional splitter since the tractor has limited hydraulic flow so the cycle times are decent given you don't have to retract the ram for the next split. Power is decent and it has split everything I've thrown at it but a few knurly logs. Let
me know what you need and I'll see if I ca get it for you.

EastBerkshireCustoms · Apr 9, 2011

CHDinCT said:
E-B-C, not sure what you mean by mechanicals? The splitter is the Powerhorse 13 ton model from Northerntool if you want more info on it. I like the bi-directional splitter since the tractor has limited hydraulic flow so the cycle times are decent given you don't have to retract the ram for the next split. Power is decent and it has split everything I've thrown at it but a few knurly logs. Let
me know what you need and I'll see if I ca get it for you.

Basically I'd like to see pics of how they are sliding the inner 'box ram' inside the outer frame and how the cylinder is attached to it.

BTW, nice Kubota! I have an older B7100 HST that is my little (over) worked horse, plus the Mahindra, and two Belarus tractors.

J_J · Apr 9, 2011

CHDinCT,

I am also trying to visualize how the cyl is connected to the blade. If you took a pic of the bottom, would it show the cyl connection, or post a page from the parts manual.

I am assuming that the cyl is inside a carrier which has the wedge welded on it, and is pushing against the frame of the base, which moves the carrier.