Need some concrete footing help

[Western]

I probably will be starting a 30x40 shop in a week or 2. My concrete guy has given me a discounted turn key price for the concrete at $3.75 per foot, or he will have his crew pour and finish for $1.00 per foot and I do all the rest that is needed. Total sq. footage with door ramp is approximately 1320 sq ft..

Savings could be around $1650.

Question, Any ideas on digging the footers with a problem back?? I thought about Ditch witch, since I will have one rented, even possible. ?? corners I'll do by hand. Not a huge job by any means.

The rest of it is no biggy, actually the footings aren't a biggy when your young and have a linebackers back.

Thanks

 

[ashdump]

Do you really need footings? Are you putting up block walls?

 

[Western]

Do you really need footings? Are you putting up block walls?

Yes on the footings, concrete friend is recommending min. of 18"HX9"W. below grade

 

[BruceWard]

How deep and wide are standard footers in your area?

How thick will your slab be?

What materials were included in the bid?

I just had a monolthic slab poured. I had the land prepared and the footers jack hammered out of the rock. The concrete crew came in and formed the outside, spread the gravel, tied the rebar, unrolled and tied the wire mesh, spread the plastic then poured and finished the slab. They spent about 5 man days on prep and 2 on the acutal pour and finish. I paid for all the concrete, gravel, rebar, wire and plastic separate from the crews $1.25 a square foot fee. I spent $2.33 a square foot on materials (concrete, rebar, wire, plastic). This brings my total excluding excavation to $3.58 a square foot.

 

[BruceWard]

Yes on the footings, concrete friend is recommending min. of 18"HX9"W. below grade

9" is pretty wide for a ditch witch. I think you would be better with a backhoe.

My footings where 3' wide and 1' deep underneath the slab which was about 5.5" thick.

 

[CurlyDave]

I have a mathematical question. At 4" thick 1320 sq. ft. is just over 16 yards of concrete, the footers will add more, about 4.5 yards.

I don't believe any contractor could supply concrete, and provide pouring, screeding and finishing labor for $1320. I think he could supply the labor, but 20 yards of concrete is going to cost you about $100/yard, maybe 10 to 20% more.

A concrete contractor may get it for a substantial discount, about $85/ yard, which is still more than the total cost of $1/ft he is asking.

So, I suspect that in the $1/ft scenario, you are going to pay for the concrete. Plus the rebar, plus do all the labor and pay for the form boards. You will pay more for the concrete than he does. Concrete alone will be on the order of $2500. Steel will be about $600 and you will have other expenses along the way. Already we are at $2.35/ft.

Unless you have a rotary laser and experience, you will not be able to level the forms nearly as well as the contractor can.

Essentially, if the $3.75/ foot bid includes materials, it is a real bargain.

You should check for yourself, but I think you will save a lot of work and get a better product by taking his bid.

 

[Western]

I appreciate the input, but Let me try to rephrase my question.

He will do/supply everything, excluding prior dirt work, for the cost of $3.75 per sq. ft. Area is 1320 sq. feet x's $3.75 = $4950

He will supply his crew to come pour and finish for $1.00 sq ft. or $1320 . I would be responsible for forms, steel.

16 yards is what he figured, plus an additional yard, so 17.

$80 a yard for me ($1360+tax), lumber I can use for shelves, and I already have half the steel if not more. I have the know how, just not the back I used to have.

I can rent up to a 12" ditch witch here, 9" is standard (here).

I was thinking possibly a small backhoe or the DW also to help with the majority of the footings, then closing the last end and using my nephew
When we did a public school slab when I was working through college as a steel tier, they used a large excavator, but of course those footings where HUGE.

 

[CurlyDave]

Either a backhoe or an excavator will be much easier for the footings. A ditch witch throws half the dirt to each side, which means half the excavated dirt will be inside your building and have to be removed by hand or by tractor. BH or excavator will place the dirt outside the building.

Have him check calculations again. 1320 sq feet @ 4" depth is 16.3 yards. Poured monolithic, the footers need to be 14" x 9" x 140 ft. This is an additional 4.54 yards.
You will need to order at least 21, probably 22 yards.

* * * * *

What kind of building will the shop be? You need a design if it requires foundation bolts or seismic tie-downs. These go in during the pour and woe be unto him who does not have them in the correct places. Where your mudsills splice together, you need two foundation bolts no more than 1' from the end of each. I prefer about 6" from the end. Don't forget the corners where you again need a foundation bolt no more than 1' from the end of each mudsill.

You need a Eufer rod for grounding an electrical panel, right under where the panel will be.

 

[Duffster]

I appreciate the input, but Let me try to rephrase my question.

He will do/supply everything, excluding prior dirt work, for the cost of $3.75 per sq. ft. Area is 1320 sq. feet x's $3.75 = $4950

He will supply his crew to come pour and finish for $1.00 sq ft. or $1320 . I would be responsible for forms, steel.

16 yards is what he figured, plus an additional yard, so 17.

$80 a yard for me ($1360+tax), lumber I can use for shelves, and I already have half the steel if not more. I have the know how, just not the back I used to have.

I can rent up to a 12" ditch witch here, 9" is standard (here).

I was thinking possibly a small backhoe or the DW also to help with the majority of the footings, then closing the last end and using my nephew
When we did a public school slab when I was working through college as a steel tier, they used a large excavator, but of course those footings where HUGE.

As many time as you have mentioned your back already I am not sure why you are even considering doing this yourself.

 

[bigtiller]

As many time as you have mentioned your back already I am not sure why you are even considering doing this yourself.

You beat me to it Duffster. With a bad back, the only bending over I would do is to pick up the check book.

 

[BruceWard]

You have 140' of footings. I assume you are on Texas dirt and not Arkansas rock. With my B21 I could dig that in ~ 3 hours, perhaps 2. If you want to dig them yourself rent a mini excavator and go at it. The mini x will be faster since it is faster to repostition. You should be able to dig it all without using the nephew. Depending on your level of experience it might take a few hours or a day.

 

[Western]

Thanks fellas for the reply's,

$1600 bucks the biggest reason If it was $500, I'd watch from the sidelines, plus I used to enjoy it. I get relief if I sit down for 5 minutes, or I work through it, depends. Stenosis in the lower spine. If it was any bigger I'd pass

I am going to take my drawing to the cement yard since they aren't that far and let them figure it before I make the decision.

I will price the mini.

I am putting in weld plates for a metal structure, The building is engineered from Mueller Buildings. I will most likely increase the size of the corners footings.

 

[markrahn]

I am putting in a 40 x 60 with brick ledge steel building. rent the mini ex. with an 8" bucket you will get a plenty wide footing. at least I did, probably due to my skill level on the mini ex I have a crew waiting and the quote for pour and finish only is .55 a foot. I have to pay for everything and prep everything. building the forms now. I am having a BLAST!

What are you using for fill? Crushed concrete? 3/4 to sand?

 

[rimshot]

I probably will be starting a 30x40 shop in a week or 2. My concrete guy has given me a discounted turn key price for the concrete at $3.75 per foot, or he will have his crew pour and finish for $1.00 per foot and I do all the rest that is needed. Total sq. footage with door ramp is approximately 1320 sq ft..

Savings could be around $1650.

Question, Any ideas on digging the footers with a problem back?? I thought about Ditch witch, since I will have one rented, even possible. ?? corners I'll do by hand. Not a huge job by any means.

The rest of it is no biggy, actually the footings aren't a biggy when your young and have a linebackers back.

Thanks

**warning long post**

I guess in your part of the country your floors and footings are poured differently than ours. We have to pour footings 42" deep from grade to bottom of footing. I think what you are doing is pouring footing with the slab or all together.

I'm thinking a building like that yours might not need a single form except in front of the door. I would grab a small backhoe with a 9" or 12" bucket and dig that footing to grade or at least within a couple inches. It would take a crew of maybe 2-3 workers but after squaring and leveling the worksite e would mark the footing excavation with paint and frequently take transit shots on the bottom of the footing as we worked.

Depending on the type of soil (depending on if it would hold or not the footing could either be formed with 2 x 8' (8" X 16", 2 continuous bars of 1/2" rerod. If the earth was of appropriate type you would clean up the sides and bottoms of the ditch by hand with a shovel squaring the sides and dressing the bottom and then pour the footing seperate. Every 6' or so a stake is driven to the exact level of the top of the footing and th concrete is poured to this point. A simple pump of the fresh redimix levels the fresh concrete side to side.

4-5 courses of 8" regular blocks and a special top block we call a header block and the footing and foundation is complete. No forms are needed for the floor as that header block contains the floor poured over top and the floor can be screed off the top.

I realize, conditions at the site (soil type) have to be right for the ditch to hold. When you can use this method you don't have to dirty a form except for across door openings. If you are in a warmer climate where footings. need not be so deep the depth of footing can be adjusted by excluding block courses.

Just another way to get the job done. I have done several jobs using just such a method. Good luck with your plan.

rimshot

 

[Western]

.55 a foot to pour and finish? that is pretty good, this guys goes to our church and had done several slabs for us in the past, but I will call around, building has been slow around here sooo.

I have seen slabs pour in side a pre-made footer. Don't know if it would work for me here though. It is such a small area 30x40 it isn't to big a deal.

 

[Boeing]

Let me jump in here with a question. I had a 24X40 steel building put up. The building turned out nice and has a dirt floor.
I want to pour a 'crete floor. I figured that I would bring in about 3" of gravel or crush-n-run then dig a 12"X12" trench to be a footer across the FRONT where there would be vehicle weight. I was going to do no trenching/footer on the sides or rear. I was thinking of a 4" pad with wire.....maybe Re-bar thru the front footer to prevent cracking. The heaviest load is the 4500lb tractor. Am I missing a few cogs in my gears here?
thanks

 

[rimshot]

If your vehicles don't exceed an average of 5000 lbs then a reinforced 4" concrete floor on a well compacted base is adequate. If you service and store heavier vehicles perhaps a floor thickness of 5-5 1/2" is preferable.

So far as the 12 " X 12" footing you refer to across the door area I guess depends on your needs. I suspect it might be overkill. If a person just likes to buy extra redi mix why not pour it 16 X 16. Nobody can tell you not to do it.

I used a 2 X 8" form across my entrance door and dropped a couple pieces of rod in for reinforcement. The floors I pour are thickened around the edge and if needed I provide for a rat wall. If your building a foundation requiring consideration for frost control that is another topic of discussion.

Good luck with your floor.

rimshot

 

[toy]

I probably will be starting a 30x40 shop in a week or 2. My concrete guy has given me a discounted turn key price for the concrete at $3.75 per foot, or he will have his crew pour and finish for $1.00 per foot and I do all the rest that is needed. Total sq. footage with door ramp is approximately 1320 sq ft..

Savings could be around $1650.

Question, Any ideas on digging the footers with a problem back?? I thought about Ditch witch, since I will have one rented, even possible. ?? corners I'll do by hand. Not a huge job by any means.

The rest of it is no biggy, actually the footings aren't a biggy when your young and have a linebackers back.

Thanks

I got some concrete poured last week, The concrete cost $125 per yard for the concrete alone. I used a lot of rebar in it and wire sheets also that was extra along with the forms. The man that did the pour charged $100 a yard for forming it up and getting it ready for the pour, pouring it and dressing it down. The slab was 11 by 24 foot and is thicker than 5 1/2 inches thick. I could have gotten the concrete for $115 a yard at another plant but they were several miles farther away and it would have been uncertain as to the exact time they would arrive with the cement so it was better for me to pay the difference.

This was the first time that I used this cement man to pour cement and he did a fair job. The man that I had always used in the past was in his 80s and he passed away about three weeks ago but he was quite a bit cheaper and did a better job. Not only was this man my cement man he was also a friend.

 

[AGGIE00]

I got some concrete poured last week, The concrete cost $125 per yard for the concrete alone. I used a lot of rebar in it and wire sheets also that was extra along with the forms. The man that did the pour charged $100 a yard for forming it up and getting it ready for the pour, pouring it and dressing it down. The slab was 11 by 24 foot and is thicker than 5 1/2 inches thick. I could have gotten the concrete for $115 a yard at another plant but they were several miles farther away and it would have been uncertain as to the exact time they would arrive with the cement so it was better for me to pay the difference.

This was the first time that I used this cement man to pour cement and he did a fair job. The man that I had always used in the past was in his 80s and he passed away about three weeks ago but he was quite a bit cheaper and did a better job. Not only was this man my cement man he was also a friend.

At that rate labor on my slab would have been $15,000. That is a raping. You should expect to pay between $1.25 to $1.75/sf for turn key labor excluding site and pad prep. That means they set up the batters, form it, dig the beams, set the rebar, and pour it. You provide all materials and mini X.

 

[crbr]

Yes on the footings, concrete friend is recommending min. of 18"HX9"W. below grade

With rebar. A small expense for the return on reinforcement.