How to build a spring box

[Michele Amico]

I have the hole dug, by hand because it's up in the woods. I've dug down about 40 inches to the water and hit bed rock. The water pools up but is only about 4" deep and remains that depth. So I'm not sure how the water will fill up the spring box any more than 4" deep. I can't dig any deeper into the rock. I can see the water source slowly seeping out of the side of the hole a few inches above the bed rock. It fllows about 1-2 gallons per minute and is well above the house. It's enough flow but I'm having trouble harvesting it.

It would be difficult to get concrete up there. But I could carry a few bags. Don't really want to carry enough to make a concrete box. Any suggestions? Can I use redwood? Does anyone have a good design or plans?

Also, I have 2500 feet to pipe it down to the house. I'm planning on using white pvc and glueing it together. I'm in Northern California and we get cold and snow but I'm thinking I'll put the pipe above ground and pray it doesn't freeze ... or at least not very often. Don't want to bury 2500 feet of pipe through the woods. Should I use 1" diameter? 3/4"?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Redgoatea]

That sounds almost exactly like what I have set up for my spring. I'm sure someone else here can tell you the right kind of pipe but I really wouldn't recommend PVC. When it does freeze and it will PVC will shatter and you'll have to replace it all. You really need to bury the line and if there's a low spot before the house put in an access where you can blow the line clear as it will clog with sediment over time.

On my spring I have a concrete box filled with gravel and then sand. When the box fills enough it flows out a pipe and directly into a 500 gallon collection tank. When that tank fills it flows out another pipe that comes down the mountain and into a 1500 gl tank at about 2 gl/min. From that tank it feeds into the pump and pressurized tank and then into the house.

I didn't build the system so I can't give you the specifics. Sorry. :-(

 

[Redgoatea]

Oh and since I'm blathering on. I would seriously recommend you borrow/rent a bobcat, skid steer, or mini excavator and plow a road up to your spring. That will allow you to bury the line and get the materials you need up to build the spring. Which btw should be either plastic or concrete otherwise it will rot out very quickly. I'll check my line and see what kind it is in case no one responds with the right type.

 

[jinman]

I was just talking to my brother about a spring he dug out when he was about 18 and I was 14. He put an oak barrel into the hole and the next day, we had the clearest, coldest water flowing out of the barrel. Of course, the barrel eventually rotted away. Today, I'd suggest using one of those heavy blue plastic barrels or something similar. If freezing is a problem, then maybe you could put gravel in the bottom and rock up the sides with stones. We had another spring on the property that had been lined with rock like they used to do in shallow wells. It would silt in, but the rock held firm.

 

[tommu56]

We used a black plastic sump pump tank fro HD and polyethylene pipe down the mountain to my old cabin

We got down to 100' (elevation=~50psi) above cabin and put a tank there to store it
We used a new horizontal 275 gallon oil tank and welded in some fittings
We always let the water trickeled in the faucit during cold weather.

tom

 

[/pine]

In my situation the actual "Spring Box" is just a way to keep debris and animal litter from getting to the source... any waste from warm blooded animals can cause 'Giardia' infections...

just below the spring box (located on the side of the mountain) is a settling tank, it is about 250 gallons...from there gravity moves the water to a series of holding and reserve tanks...

I used natural stones and mortar to construct the spring box and a plywood lid...but I have also used tongue and groove 2x lumber to make other boxes and sealed the inside with hot wax (paraffin)...

I have also used stones and then used hydraulic cement on the inside (no mortar) to make a water tight box.. this takes less hauling to the site but the stones must fit fairly tight dry stacked...

PVC is fine as long as there is a fast enough continual flow to prevent freezing...otherwise it will freeze in an instant...I would only use PVC if it was burried below the freeze line...

what I do first is...right at the spring I dig a depression where the water will accumulate... and construct a manifold with a pick up and outflow stem...then I usually use a mixture of portland and sand to embed the manifold into the depression and then build the box around it...

for 45 years I have used black plastic (polyethylene) lines with very few problems...my spring box is probably 600' up the mountain from the cabin...

 

[tommu56]

We used regular concrete mix to make catch basin just use vinegar not water in the mix it will set under the water then.

tom

 

[Redgoatea]

We used regular concrete mix to make catch basin just use vinegar not water in the mix it will set under the water then.

tom

I've been mixing concrete for years and never heard this. Fascinating. Now I'll have to go get some Portland and try it just for fun.

Oh and I checked and my line is black polyethylene as well. About 2000 feet long. Good luck Michele. 7

 

[sellercreek]

I have the hole dug, by hand because it's up in the woods. I've dug down about 40 inches to the water and hit bed rock. The water pools up but is only about 4" deep and remains that depth. So I'm not sure how the water will fill up the spring box any more than 4" deep. I can't dig any deeper into the rock. I can see the water source slowly seeping out of the side of the hole a few inches above the bed rock. It fllows about 1-2 gallons per minute and is well above the house. It's enough flow but I'm having trouble harvesting it.

It would be difficult to get concrete up there. But I could carry a few bags. Don't really want to carry enough to make a concrete box. Any suggestions? Can I use redwood? Does anyone have a good design or plans?

Also, I have 2500 feet to pipe it down to the house. I'm planning on using white pvc and glueing it together. I'm in Northern California and we get cold and snow but I'm thinking I'll put the pipe above ground and pray it doesn't freeze ... or at least not very often. Don't want to bury 2500 feet of pipe through the woods. Should I use 1" diameter? 3/4"?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I would use 1 1/4 inch polyethelene, then reduce to 3/4 when it gets to the house. A manifold with PEX inside the house is a great way to distribute the water.

 

[Rob-D]

Hi Michele welcome to TBN,

The thing you didn't tell us is the head of the spring. That is how high above the final destination it is. If it's only ten or twenty feet using 3/4 inch line for that distance will leave a very reduced flow from friction.

The other thing is whether it is going to be a constant flow or not. From what you're describing it is most likely not.

I wouldn't use white PVC, first it's not good for UV. Us the 1" black plastic pipe made for deep wells, it has a stronger wall and will not be affected by UV.

Like others mentioned here the way to overcome the low output is with a holding tank.

Also what's the lowest temperature you'll see in your area and what's the freeze depth? You really need to know these things to engineer it properly.

Rob

 

[Egon]

From what I understand the water is flowing on the bedrock which is covered with about 40 inches of soil.

If so you will have to trench out to daylight at the 40 inch depth level or with a bit of slope or a pump will be required. It's doubtfully that a siphon type system will flow properly to not break the siphon.

So to me it would sound like you have some more digging to do or make use of a trencher.

Using a trencher will open some different options for getting materials to the site.

Decisions - Decisions!

 

[radioman]

Where I grew up, we had spring fed water. The well head is well over 2000 ft away from house. The well head is concrete with metal lid. The drop is not even 20 ft by the time it gets to the house, but its dug well under the frost line. The water would run into a collection tank in basement and then use a shallow well pump to provide pressure in house. It been that way since my parants moved in and its still running today. Th pipe is only half inch galvanized metal and today after 60 years it still runs, but its a trickle during the summer due to rusting pipe.

I like jinman's idea, use a 55 gallon plastic drum and connect a outlet spout for pipe after drilling drainage holes on bottom for water to go in. dump small round stones around the barrel for water to flow through to the barrel on outside. I agree with others not to use pvc pipe since it will crack and waste your time and money. You really need to get the pipe buried. I'd dig a trench and connect the pipe in trench to test before covering up.

 

[Michele Amico]

Thanks folks. Lots of good advice. Sorry, it took awhile for me to check in, forgot my password.

Rob D, some answers to your questions.
I have a good 200 feet of head from the spring source to my existing 2500 gal storage tank. The linear distance is gonna make for a lot of work, 2500 feet.

The flow will be constant, low volume flow, at about 2 gal/minute. But right now this is my summer cabin, so I need to drain the line or .... ? for the winter. Everybody is saying to use the black plastic and avoid the PVC pipe. I'll take that advice.

The lowest temperatures are definately below freezing, rarely below 10 F, but it could happen. Not sure of the frost depth, I'm guessing less than 12", probably less than 8" even. THe place is in northern California, Trinity Mountains, at 2500 feet elevation. We definately get snow every year, but not a ton. Don't know how I'd accomplish burying the 2500 feet of pipe through the woods, it's steep and rocky in parts, thick brush in parts. I'll probably try to drain the pipe for the winter. And someday get the pipe buried before I retire to the cabin forever in eight more years.

Can't tell you all how much I appreciate the help.
Michele.

 

[whistlepig]

I have seen this done once in eastern Ohio. The ground there is full of oil shale and the well water isn't fit to drink. They tapped into a shallow spring with PVC pipe below the frost line. Then there were a series of three concrete settling tanks about 30 yards apart. About three feet deep and 24" x 24". These had heavy sealed concrete lids. I looked inside these three settling tanks. The first two settling tanks had crickets, spiders, crawdads, and frogs in them. How they got in there I haven't a clue. The first two settling tanks looked like miniature eco-systems. The third settling tank was critter free. From the settling tanks in to the house was about 600 feet. The water then went through a filtering system in the basement of the house. This water was excellent. There is nothing better tasting than (real) spring water. This system was installed by the local professionals. It's the only water system available in that part of the country.

 

[Rob-D]

Thanks folks. Lots of good advice. Sorry, it took awhile for me to check in, forgot my password.

Rob D, some answers to your questions.
I have a good 200 feet of head from the spring source to my existing 2500 gal storage tank. The linear distance is gonna make for a lot of work, 2500 feet.

The flow will be constant, low volume flow, at about 2 gal/minute. But right now this is my summer cabin, so I need to drain the line or .... ? for the winter. Everybody is saying to use the black plastic and avoid the PVC pipe. I'll take that advice.

The lowest temperatures are definitely below freezing, rarely below 10 F, but it could happen. Not sure of the frost depth, I'm guessing less than 12", probably less than 8" even. The place is in northern California, Trinity Mountains, at 2500 feet elevation. We definitely get snow every year, but not a ton. Don't know how I'd accomplish burying the 2500 feet of pipe through the woods, it's steep and rocky in parts, thick brush in parts. I'll probably try to drain the pipe for the winter. And someday get the pipe buried before I retire to the cabin forever in eight more years.

Can't tell you all how much I appreciate the help.
Michele.

I have a neighbor who has close to your situation. We're get very cold winters here and he has a line above ground. The trick is that he keeps the line open so the water runs off into a stream. You could do something similar. You'd need a holding tank in the basement with a run off line to keep the water moving.
With your hight (head) you can easily run 3/4" black plastic pipe with no problems with the holding tank in the basement. Try to keep it as simple as possible. Since you have some time before you'll be there permanently you can see how viable the system is. I'd say forget about burying pipe over that distance for now, they do make small trenchers for burying cable but I wouldn't look into that until I exhausted simpler solutions.

Rob

 

[clemsonfor]

I agree do not use white PVC. Its not UV resistant and after about 2 years will shatter if you step on it. It is brittle as well and a tree limb may crack it if it falls on it. Here in Upstate SC below freeze line us just under surface i think but pipes will freeze solid above ground several times a year. I know i have a insulated pvc spicket that freezes every year. I think black pipe is all somewhat uv resistant. That black roll pipe will go down quick. It will bell time consuming buring that much pipe, u would have to use a trencher and will cut tree rots and have to go around large rocks that you cant get up.

 

[furnitureguy]

I live east of you at about 3000' elevation on the west face of the cascades. You really do not need to bury your pipe all that deep, the only problem we have with frozen pipes underground are ones that are only an inch or so deep. The black plastic rolls of pipe do much better when they freeze and at 2 gallons a minute that might be enough flow to keep it from freezing so you might not have to drain the line between the spring and tank and it would be nice to keep your storage tank full.
The biggest problem we have had is with pipes under houses and some small pipes on pressure valves that freeze really quick so insulate anything like that.
Tom

 

[tommu56]

If its for a cabin just lay it on the ground and cover it with rocks so the deer hooves wont cut it that is what we did.
It layed on top for a long time every time we went up to check spring we might do 5-10 foot section
If it does brake use the white nylon fittings because the gray plastic ones break when frozen.
just disconnect it before it freezes at both ends or if flow is sufficient disconnect bottom and let it flow it shouldn't freeze if its moving .

tom

 

[Larry Caldwell]

We used regular concrete mix to make catch basin just use vinegar not water in the mix it will set under the water then.

tom

Plain old concrete will set just fine under water. Concrete does not dry, it cures. I don't know what adding an acid to the mix would do, but probably nothing good.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I have the hole dug, by hand because it's up in the woods. I've dug down about 40 inches to the water and hit bed rock. The water pools up but is only about 4" deep and remains that depth. So I'm not sure how the water will fill up the spring box any more than 4" deep. I can't dig any deeper into the rock. I can see the water source slowly seeping out of the side of the hole a few inches above the bed rock. It fllows about 1-2 gallons per minute and is well above the house. It's enough flow but I'm having trouble harvesting it.

It would be difficult to get concrete up there. But I could carry a few bags. Don't really want to carry enough to make a concrete box. Any suggestions? Can I use redwood? Does anyone have a good design or plans?

Also, I have 2500 feet to pipe it down to the house. I'm planning on using white pvc and glueing it together. I'm in Northern California and we get cold and snow but I'm thinking I'll put the pipe above ground and pray it doesn't freeze ... or at least not very often. Don't want to bury 2500 feet of pipe through the woods. Should I use 1" diameter? 3/4"?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

You haven't found the spring yet, just the place where the water daylights. If you start digging uphill, you will eventually find the spring. It has probably been buried by dirt slumping from above. If you dig back to the spring, you may get quite a bit more water.

Bury the pipe. For a 2500 ft. run, use at least 2" black poly pipe. You can buy it in 500 ft. rolls, and it's flexible enough to go around trees and rocks. Rent a trencher and bury it. I forget the max pressure, but I think 125 PSI, but maybe 250 PSI. You may have to put pressure reducers in the line. Put a pressure tank at the bottom to absorb water hammer.