Question about land survey

[beppington]

... if 2 land surveys marked same property corner say 10' apart, which one is the right one?

A local real estate attorney told me about a situation where two different surveyors were hired to survey a number of directly-adjacent large parcels owned by two different people ... totalled like 3,000 acres ... The two surveyors disagreed on where they met somewhere out in the middle, off by like 50' I think. A big argument between the land owners ensued, but eventually one of the land owners just said, "Fine, you take it." I guess the owner that gave in didn't think it was worth a court battle.

 

[beppington]

10' off should be off enough for you to be more precise.

I talked to the surveyor that surveyed my parents home/ land purchase last year, & he told me they usually advise owners to install their fences 6" - 12" inside the property lines "just in case". :laughing: Seemed ridiculous to me; That's as accurate as a licensed surveyor can get??

 

[beppington]

Just to say, I had my land surveyed a few years back and the surveyors told me it was illegal to remove their stakes.

Illegal but practically impossible to enforce.

Edit: Unless you catch 'em on video like Ken!!

 

[smstonypoint]

<snip>

Even the data sets used by GPS devices vary, just look at the difference in the Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM) Grid data points on USGS TOPO maps, NAD83 vs NAD27.

I don't know what this means.

I was under the impression that surveyors nowadays had access to, and used, very accurate (and very expensive) GPS technology. My thinking was that some day in the future, deeds would use latitudes/longitudes rather than metes and bounds, etc.

Steve

 

[beppington]

One point of interest on farm surveying, In Ky, the old surveys (done with pole/rods/chains or whatever) always show 10-15 % more land than the new surveys show. For example we bought a 165 acre old surveyed farm the actually was a 143 acre farm on the new survey. Ken Sweet

Wow! Big difference! I'd pay good money for 22 acres!!!

 

[beppington]

I can tell you how our local surveyors keep out of trouble when surveying a farm. They get the old deeds from all adjoining property at the courthouse and make sure all mesh together.

And what if they don't?!?! That's when the fun can begin. :confused2:

 

[sweettractors]

And what if they don't?!?! That's when the fun can begin. :confused2:

Well, actually, that is how come that 1 acre was not included in my farm purchase. Surveyors explained the situation to me and I went ahead with the purchase anyway. Ken Sweet

 

[Freds]

Well let me tell you how the "local" surveyors work by me.
I had a local surveyor recommended to me by a local real estate agent that I knew. I gave him a call to ask about having my property surveyed and the first thing he asked me was who my neighbors were... I asked him what difference that made, that I didn't want to give their names out of privacy, and he came back with he didn't want to survey my property if it was going to interfere wit someone he knew.
Yep. Exact science.

 

[ultrarunner]

I am a land surveyor in Illinois and Iowa, so I am not really sure how things work in Pa. Some state require tags to be put on monuments with the surveyors license number on it, or caps on top of the corner marker, which sounds like what you are describing. In a perfect world, all surveyors would come up with the same location for your corner. It isn't a perfect world, so sometimes we disagree. Sometimes there is a conflict in the deeds that gives a different locations, sometimes a surveyor see the evidence of the boundary in a different manner than someone else.

You should not have pulled the marker. Like someone else said, it could be some kind of offset, or it may not have anything to do with the boundary. If the surveyors license number was on it, you should have contacted him and asked him "whats up". I welcome people who call me or ask me in the field what we are doing. I like to educate the public and let them know what we are doing. I would say in the future, don't pull the markers, most states have a law against it. If it is just a wood stake that makes the corner visable on a temporary basis, there is nothing wrong with pulling them once you get tired of mowing around it, but the metal stake in the ground should be left alone.

I found some new survey stakes on the family property... each had the surveyor's license printed on the cap..

I called and the guy was as nice as could be... he said they were triangulating to establish markers for property on the opposite hillside...

I asked if he had any info on our property and the next day at the front door were several maps of the area and one showing where he put stakes on out property...

Over the years, he's answered questions for me... never would have met him if I wouldn't have called him...

 

[dodge man]

GPS is a great technology but has its problems. I good survey grade generally cost between $30,000 to $40,000. Its good for measuring distances that are farther apart, say over 500 feet, than short distances. It doesn't work well for lot surveys in town, because it has small errors for every shot, in the order of 1/2 to 1 inch. A distance of 60 feet that is off 1 inch is not exceptable, but 1 inch for a distance of a 1000 feet is as good or better than convential equipment. Also GPS does not work well in tree cover, it has to have fairly open skys.

The problem with GPS is that as a rule, you have to start from a point that has known coordinates. These were set by the feds years ago, and some local goevernments has added some over the years. You usually set your base GPS unit on this known point and take a rover and go survey the boundary you are working on. You can create your own base points but this can take longer than starting from a point that is already known. These known points often have some error between them. Say I survey a boundary and put a set of coordinates on all the property corners. Then another surveyor does the same boundary, but starts from a different known point that is a little bit different than the one I used, you get different coordinates. Some states have GPS bases setup all over the state and you can dial them up using a cell data conncection there by not needing your own base.

There is set of rules for evidence that generally follows this list.
Natural monument(such as a river or tree)
man made monuments(such as iron stakes)
bearings
distances
acreage
coordinates

You can see coordinates are the last thing that should be used, and acreage is pretty low on the totem pole also.

In my area, land areas are generally larger than the original surveys call for. It is not uncommon that a 160 acre tract will contain 2 to 5 acres extra. This is most likely due to the fact that the orginal surveyors chains were worn, and there by longer than normal. Nobody as a rule lost ground since as a rule most people gained a similar amount of ground.

Surveyors and surveys are like many other things, you get what you pay for. Some take shortcuts, don't do enough research, don't spend enough time looking for existing property corners etc. I want to be known as the best surveyor in my area, not the cheapest. But as a rule, most people will go with the cheapest price.

Hope this answers some questions.