Who has the most hours on their Kioti?

[Dargo]

A dealer I know is considering picking up Kioti. I can't get more specific than that. However, one concern he expressed to me was that he's never heard of a Kioti with 2500, 3000, 4000 etc. hours on them. Most of his current brand tractors are hitting his shop for overhauls around 10k hours or so. He said when he was asking around the most he ever heard was from owners who had something like 700 or 800 hours on their Kioti tractors. Clearly, that's not very many. Quite a few of his customers put more than twice that on their machines in a year.

Being that I feel that this site has the largest group of Kioti members of any place on the internet, I thought I'd pose the question here as to who has the most hours on their Kioti. Also, if you have 3000, 4000 hours etc. on your Kioti, would you be willing to send an email giving Kioti a good reference along with a picture of the hour meter etc. on your tractor to this guy? My thought is, since he's keeping this on the quiet, I could get him an anonymous email address and people could send recommendations and testimonials to that address. So, how many hours ya got on your Kioti?

 

[BTI]

I know you are wanting end users but I can tell you what I have sold and the hrs--
I have one customer with alot of hrs for the year.
Well at least considering most hardly put 100 hrs a year on one around here LOL.
He has a 2004 DK45 with at last count 1800 hrs on it.
He is self-admittedly "Hard on equipment".
Nothing but filters so far, oh and an ignition switch.
I think next behind him is a DK45 and a DK55 with 1400-1600, some other machines in the 1200 to 800 area.
Most are between 600 and 800.
I really don't see my customers very often after the sale......
Have never changed an engine, except for in an old 3054....they just don't run well without oil in the crankcase.


BTI

 

[ToadHill]

I have a 2006 Dk35 with 965 hours. I follow the book on fluid changes and adjustments. I replaced a broken seat under warranty and so far have not had any other issues.

I did have to replace the front tires this past summer.

 

[carpenter383]

I'm not even close to highest hrs, but with 143 trouble free hrs in about 8 months I am very happy with my kioti.

 

[Dargo]

I know you are wanting end users but I can tell you what I have sold and the hrs--
I have one customer with alot of hrs for the year.
Well at least considering most hardly put 100 hrs a year on one around here LOL.
He has a 2004 DK45 with at last count 1800 hrs on it.

You're right, he's really looking for end users. For relatively obvious reasons he's not finding many large Kioti dealerships willing to open up their books to him nor really give him free access to all shop information. I understand as well that not doing so isn't hiding anything, it's just not really good business to release all information to just anyone. And, as I'm sure you know, this isn't some weird joke by me. I told him that I'm relatively sure that there are plenty of Kioti tractors out there with thousands of hours on them. He's a third generation owner and someone has him convinced that Kioti is just entry level tractors that are great for homeowner use or weekend warrior use but he seems to have some serious doubts about them holding up like the brands his family has sold for generations.

My plate is full. I'm not looking into buying any other businesses or even going in on other businesses right now. I'm just trying to tell him that with Kioti virtually non-existent in this market area that I think he could move some iron. What he is considering is a 2nd tier line of tractors but wants absolutely nothing to do with Chinese made tractors or a Belarus type of tractor. I'm trying to tell him that Kioti and Mahindra are much closer to the brands he sells than to those he won't consider. To be blunt, he sort of challenged me to show him all these Kioti tractors with a few thousand hours on them. This is the only place I could think of.

I understand his fear. After generations of building a great reputation for standing behind their machines, they have also had machines that have well established histories of lasting to that 8k to 10k mark. He told me that his reputation would be shot if he brought on Kioti tractors, sold a load of them to one of his fleet customers and then had them all dropping dead at 2k to 3k hours on them. I'm just asking for help in proving him wrong; or more correctly, proving whoever told him that wrong. And, yeah, y'all know I'd most likely be all over him looking at a new DK90 all decked out in a couple of years. Of course, I'd expect a great deal from him on one for being a big factor in him considering them.

I may have to run and hide if this thread gets me in trouble with him. I'm sure he doesn't know I'm going to this extent to find some examples of relatively higher hour Kioti tractors. C'mon guys, don't let me end up with egg on my face. There's gotta be some 4k, 5k, 6k hour Kioti tractors out there somewhere....isn't there?

 

[PA hayseed]

I'm not sure many of the posters on this site would be putting those kind of numbers up. My 07 45sehst only has about 420 on it. Next aug or sep I will have 3 years on it, and roughly estimating the usage I normally use it for, plus the 2 or 3 anticipated projects, I will likely not crack 750. Now, if we get alot of snow this year, maybe I'll reach 800, but that is doubtful.

Good luck on this. I know professionals that aren't cracking 1600 on a piece in a year on a skidsteer. these guys have multiple pieces. Even the smaller outfits (one guy operations) have two skidsteers and a trackhoe. Maybe that is the only piece of equipment they are running for every job they do. At 1600 in a year, that is 40 - 40 hour weeks (rough est only). In PA, there are times of the year that you better have a heck of a piece of equipment to dig in the ground due to the ground being frozen.

Would it be a true apples to apples comparison if the clock hours read differently? My limited understanding of clocks is that they don't all track the same, with some reading the rpms more than others. I'm a homeowner, and I couldn't see a homeowner running theirs more than me on average. I barely got out of the tractor last summer with all the dirt, gravel, sandstone, and topsoil I moved, besides the grass cutting and tilling, post hole digging etc.

I guess my question is, what is average? Then, what is average for a homeowner vs. equipment operators?

Thanks for the post, you have me thinking about some things now.

 

[mrutkaus]

Good question, I'll be watching!
Mike

 

[Dargo]

I believe this is sort of the crux of the issue; I'm claiming that Kioti has moved from the 'price leader' to now ready be considered with commercial equipment. He's been told, and apparently believes, Kioti is just another homeowner grade tractor that's only sold on price point and are basically disposable when compared to what they have sold for generations. I'm sort of getting worried about being able to prove him wrong with real live examples. Am I wrong? Aren't there any Kioti tractors out there with any hours on them? He has dozens of examples with 2k or 3k hours on them sitting all over his lot, from his used lot to his service department to a couple of his loaners. Where are you guys with some hours on your Kioti tractors??

 

[IslandTractor]

Dargo you have to remember that Kioti is still a relatively new brand in the US and even though it has been here for 20 years or so most of the sales have been made in the past 5-10 years. As Kioti only came out with "Ag" type tractors with the DK65 (maybe also DK45S) about five or six years ago there hasn't been much time for commercial users to rack up 8,000 hours or so. Most of us on TBN are personal users and put on a couple hundred hours a year. Takes a while to reach the hours you are looking for at that rate.

 

[Dargo]

Unfortunately, that's how the competition is painting Kioti; as a small company that sells their products out of roadside shacks to customers who will never expect them to work more than 2000 hours. I don't believe that's true about them. However, if I were a potential dealer and I couldn't find any evidence that Kioti tractors are built to make it more than a couple thousand hours, I'd most likely pass on them and move on to Mahindra, which is the other brand he's considering. Mahindra is able to provide him with lists of customer testimonials where they have 2k, 3k and even 4k hours on their machines.

As I've said before, I like Mahindra tractors, but I hate to see them continue to keep Kioti out of this part of the country and paint Kioti as a tractor only for the new tractor buyer (who doesn't know any better) and for light homeowner use. This is why none of the bigger, well established, tractor dealerships in my area carry Kioti and most won't consider doing so. With no dealers around me, Kioti is not a viable option for me. If they can't break out of being that tractor company who sells most of their tractors to first time tractor buyers and for homeowner use, they'll never get any of the big hitter dealers doing serious volume to take them on.

*edit*
Since it looks like I'm not going to be any help in proving Kioti tractors will hold up in industrial use and will more likely just get people upset, I think I'll drop out of this thread and not try to provide Kioti any unsolicited help. I think it looks like it would be in my best interest to just let it drop. Thanks to those who replied!

 

[steve0413]

I personally don't think that people who use their tractors for commercial use are gonna be hanging around tractor forums. I do know locals who have used Kioti's in the commercial hay business for several years and they love them. I don't, however, have any idea of the number of hours they may have on them.

I would be curious to know what type of commercial use these tractors your friend has on his lot were used for. Agri? Constructions?...etc.? I just can't imagine any type of business where one could put 1500 or 2000 hrs a year on a tractor. I mean, that's non-stop, 40hrs a week, 52 weeks a year. Just doesn't add up.

 

[Dargo]

I would be curious to know what type of commercial use these tractors your friend has on his lot were used for. Agri? Constructions?...etc.? I just can't imagine any type of business where one could put 1500 or 2000 hrs a year on a tractor. I mean, that's non-stop, 40hrs a week, 52 weeks a year. Just doesn't add up.

As I was concerned about, Kioti owners getting defensive when I'm trying to get a Kioti dealer in my area. As I said, drop it. It's not worth the trouble. Your statements unfortunately only support what he's been told. Plenty of his customers put that type of hours on their tractors. Everything from ag use of utility sized tractors, rental yard customers, 'underground plumber' customers, construction customers, landscape customers etc., etc., etc. The days of working a 40 hour week and being a successful business owner are long since past. Most owners work 50, 60, 70 hours plus per week.

 

[ToadHill]

(If they can't break out of being that tractor company who sells most of their tractors to first time tractor buyers and for homeowner use, they'll never get any of the big hitter dealers doing serious volume to take them on.)

I've owned Ford, Massey Ferguson, Oliver and now Kioti. I'm not a first time tractor buyer and my homeowner use includes 25 tillable acres and 60 acres of hardwood forest that is regularly thinned and managed using the Kioti. It takes care of snowblowing on 2 drives one 900 ft and the other about 1/4 mile long in the heart of lake effect snow country.

Clearly my acreage isn't huge but this tractor gets a good workout, and I've had fewer problems with it than I have had with the MF or Oliver.

 

[steve0413]

As I was concerned about, Kioti owners getting defensive when I'm trying to get a Kioti dealer in my area. As I said, drop it. It's not worth the trouble. Your statements unfortunately only support what he's been told. Plenty of his customers put that type of hours on their tractors. Everything from ag use of utility sized tractors, rental yard customers, 'underground plumber' customers, construction customers, landscape customers etc., etc., etc. The days of working a 40 hour week and being a successful business owner are long since past. Most owners work 50, 60, 70 hours plus per week.

I apologize if you thought I was getting defensive. You will never be able to convince him that my DK45 w/BH will compare to a Case or JD or whatever backhoe for example. I was trying to get a better idea of what you were up against even though you originally just asked for hours.

Hey, I'm with you in that I want a local, dependable Kioti dealer near me too. Again, sorry if you misunderstood.

 

[IslandTractor]

Unfortunately, that's how the competition is painting Kioti; as a small company that sells their products out of roadside shacks to customers who will never expect them to work more than 2000 hours.

Hey, if I were the competition I'd make that argument too. Time tested way of undermining newcomers. However there are other examples to point out to a good businessman. How'd he like to be the first Honda or Toyota dealer in his area (thinking back to the early seventies)? I'm quite sure the GM and Ford dealers (even the Rambler dealers) would have made similar arguments regarding taking on a Japanese line back then. Hard to find a Toyota with 200,000 miles on it back in 1975. All businessmen need to decide what risks to take and those who don't take risks or are late to the table don't get much benefit. Korean manufacturers are today pretty much in the same spot that the Japanese were 30-40 years ago where they are producing world class products but don't yet have the respect or prestige value that established brands have. A good businessman knows how to evaluate those sorts of opportunities and risks and to exploit advantages and avoid pitfalls. The car dealers who waited until the first Toyotas reached 200,000 miles are today left with their (ex)GM franchises and perhaps doing fine but not as well as dealers who stuck their necks out and added Toyota, Honda, Subraru, Nissan etc to their lineup. A dealer would be nuts to give up JD, Kubota or NH to take on Kioti but if they could add either Kioti or Mahindra to their more established lines they have opened a new avenue for growth.

I appreciate Dargo's desire to stay out of any fireworks but this discussion really doesn't seem likely to go that direction. It's been a while since Tractor Color Wars clouded the TBN horizon. Don't be timid about giving open well thought out criticism (as if that point needs to be made to him). There is not nearly the sensitivity or defensiveness to that as what existed three or four years ago.

 

[Dargo]

(If they can't break out of being that tractor company who sells most of their tractors to first time tractor buyers and for homeowner use, they'll never get any of the big hitter dealers doing serious volume to take them on.)

I've owned Ford, Massey Ferguson, Oliver and now Kioti. I'm not a first time tractor buyer and my homeowner use includes 25 tillable acres and 60 acres of hardwood forest that is regularly thinned and managed using the Kioti. It takes care of snowblowing on 2 drives one 900 ft and the other about 1/4 mile long in the heart of lake effect snow country.

Clearly my acreage isn't huge but this tractor gets a good workout, and I've had fewer problems with it than I have had with the MF or Oliver.

You are my proof, case in point, etc. I just need a lot more to get someone to get past the old labels and trust in the brand enough to sink a chunk of money into them. Again, this is not first hand, but it doesn't seem that Kioti is trying to do much to break out of their mold of being a second tier tractor that sells on price. I just thought it is time they stand up and take that next step. Having zero response here that would help me convince someone differently makes me sorry I stood up and tried. Sorry if I offended by trying to get Kioti to take the next step. Maybe their true market is almost exclusively first time buyers for what amounts to light duty use. I don't set their market strategy and I don't really know if they will last like the established brands. It was just a thought.

Have fun, be careful. Over and out.

 

[albmn10]

Hello Dargo, what you are looking for is a Kioti dealer that has been established for quite awhile. My dealer who i bought my Kioti from, Rodick Farm Machinery was in business for over 20 years. I asked him about the Kioti line and he said hes had no major issues with the brand, said they were pretty reliable. He told me he had customers in the 8000 hour mark. I asked him about my ck30 on how many hours to expect , he told be 6000 to 7000 hours. He is a pretty straight shooter and your friend can call him himself, im sure he will tell it like it is. I know he had mentioned about retiring last year when i saw him, and i didnt see his dealership on the Kioti list of dealers,but i did call his number and got his dealership answering machine. I guess your friend can call him and ask whatever info hed like, being he is so far away i wouldnt think he would be a threat business wise. His name is Bud, at Rodicks Farm Machinery in Schroon Lake Ny. Number is 518 532 7724 hrs 7 30 - 5:00 m - f Sat, 8 - 12, Hope that helps.. Matt

 

[DK35vince]

I don't have the thousands of hours you are looking for. But I have owned my Kioti DK 35 and my John Deere 850 long enough to get a very good idea as to how they are comparing as far as reliable and build quality.
I've owned my JD 850 for 15 years and 1800 hours.
I've owned my Kioti DK 35 for 8 years and 1355 hours.
So far my Kioti is showing no signs at all of any wear, leaks or weak areas. Seems to be just as solid, well built and reliable as my JD from what I've seen to date.

 

[IslandTractor]

Maybe their true market is almost exclusively first time buyers for what amounts to light duty use.

That is probably a true statement for ALL brands of compact utility tractors. These things are not Ag tractors or skidsteers or excavators. Kubota started the CUT trend and I would be quite sure that the majority of Kubota owners are "first time buyers for what amounts to light duty use". From my experience on TBN there are relatively few who report heavy duty or very high hours/year use of their CUTs. I am well aware that there are professional farmers and landscapers and contractors who use CUTs and report on that experience here using all sorts of brands but I believe it is still true that the majority of users here are first (or maybe second) time buyers who do loader chores and mowing as their primary tractor duties. Perhaps we should take a poll on total number of tractor hours in a TBN member's life. I imagine you'd get a normal distribution with a some outlyiers who have grown up on farms reporting many thousands of hours, a few newbies with less than a hundred and the reporting something between a hundred and a thousand or maybe two thousand hours. That can generally be considered light use if it is accummulated at a typical CUT users rate of 100-200 hours/year. So, I guess all this just makes me wonder if the dealer who is considering Kioti/Mahindra understands or is really interested in entering the "light duty CUT market" at all.

 

[rd_macgregor]

I think there is a catch-22 in the market. The big hours are accumulated by business people (contractors, farmers, etc.), not casual, homeowner types. Business people can't take a chance of additional downtime from a (potentially) sub-par piece of equipment just to save a few bucks on purchase price, so they go with the known brand.
Unfortunately, this dramatically constrains the ability of the "new" brand to accumulate a reputation for reliability and attract more commercial buyers.
I asked my local Kioti dealer if he has sold a DK90 yet: "No". Most of the Kioti line isn't quite up to heavy farm or even contractor use, where the big hours are, so the vast majority of machines will fall in the couple-of-hundred-hours-per-year class. I love my DK45SC and it does a great job of blowing snow, mowing fields and working in the woods...but only for 100+ hours per year. The tractors are good, but the competition is stiff.
The comparison to early Japanese car dealers is apt. Only if the newcomer is demonstrably superior to the established brands in some way, will it catch on and grow in market share, though.
BOB