I killed my Ford 8N ... now it won't start

[GPintheMitten]

When I had a 6 volt Ford 2N, I took the coil in to the New Holland dealer and they tested it. Sometimes it tested good and other times not. If I was 150 miles from town, I would take several parts in for them to test. And I would buy spares to have at home. I think you may have fried the coil with a 12 volt reverse polarity jump attempt. A new coil before the the jump doesn't mean it isn't bad now.

 

[Soundguy]

Even in good conditions 6V is hard to start. .

Popycock.

I have 6v tractors that start faster than modern automobiles..

a good well maintained tractor can start in a single rev of the starter.. I have ones that prove it.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

here's the quick and dirty.

run a wire from battery hot.. which is negative by the way.. to the primary connection on the coil.. from there there will be a wire fromt he other side of the primary going tot he side of the distribuitor.. that is an insulating grommet with a feedthru screw that connects to a copper strip over to the points and condensor. the pointsgap for the sidemount is .025.. I know some manuals say otherwise.. as there are misprints that claim .015 same as the front mount units.. it's an error.

plugs are also gapped at .025

when points are open. you should measure full bat volts at that wire point ont he side of the distrib.. if not.. the old grommet is shot. can fake a replacement with nylon or plastic.. I've used a license plate grommet and scre before.. have also just removed the grommet and ran a wire in carefull that it don't touch anything important that moves..

sometimes that copper strip breaks too.

now.. if you still have the oem 6v generator and regulator and are positive ground, jumper bat hot ( - ) to armature stud on the back o fthe generator to repolerize it.. your jump start -MAY- have messed up the reg.. but that won't prevent you from starting.. I have some tests for you to do to check the health of the charge system AFTER you get her running.

post back.

soundguy

once you get that all doctor'd up, try to crank her and check spark at the plugs.. if spark is good, go for it.

soundguy

 

[RickB]

You say you have a new ignition switch at hand, but not installed. Install it.

 

[Sprocket1]

By the way, hurry up so we can see what it was that fixed it. Just kiddin'

 

[BeeferMan]

If you got 6v at the battery side of the coil, but low voltage at the coil terminal of the distributor, then hold the points open with something non-conductive like a piece of plastic or cardboard. You should have 6v on the hot side of the points. If you don't, pull the wire from the coil off the terminal of the distributor. With that off, you should get 6v at the loose end of the wire. If you don't you got a bad coil or wire. If you do, then you got a short or bad connection within the distributor, or a bad condenser.

 

[Egon]

Darned; the sparking side has been beat to death. How about the fuel side. Did it need a boost because of dead battery or excessive cranking?

 

[Soot]

Ok quick update but no NEW information. With snow, animals and the honey do list, the tractor has moved down in priority. I have not been able to get back to it yet.

To answer a few of the questions, issues, The coil is new (post 12 volt jump attempt) as are all the other parts. I an 99.999% certain I purchased a 6V coil. I no longer have the packaging from the coil, but I know I got the shop manual where I learned about 6V pos ground before I got the coil and started working on it. It has been sitting for a while though.

The reason for the jump start was excessive cranking. Prior to the jump start it would start but had what appeared to be carb issues. The guy I bought it from had done some work on the carb (he is a JD mechanic which doesn't necessarily mean that much) It died while I was driving out of the barn and when I attempted to restart it, I believe I flooded it.

Since then I've been trying to get the ignition circuit working properly so I can work on the carb issues.

Right now I KNOW I have a sparking problem ... well get to the carb in the (hopefully) near future.

I'll keep y'all posted

 

[Soundguy]

So... with a hot wire from the battery to the primary of the coil, and fromt he other side of the primary to the distribuitor feedthru ( connects to points and condensor ).. when you spin her over and look at a spark plug that has the threaded portion grounded to chassie.. you get what?

If no spark, ensure the points are opening and closing electrically.. IE.. use an ohm meter to make sure they are making contact.. or a test lamp. volt meter can be used as well.. just have to hook each up differently.

ohm meter.. one probe from the disconnected stud onthe side of the distrib and the other probe to ground.. cranking tractor over should make a short-open-short-open.. etc..

post back.

soundguy

 

[Lewissiwel]

Hello Soot. You actually don't need A handcrank to do the final tuning of you points gap. Simply make sure your fan belt is tight and turn the fan which will turn over the engine in small amounts. Hope this advice helps you. Lewis.

 

[DaveOmak]

Soot, I recently replaced the distributor cap on my '53 NAA.
On the 8N, is there an O-ring seal on the dist? There is on the NAA.
The replacement cap would not fit on the dist. properly. I found the original cap had a beveled edge on the bottom of the cap to aid the cap sliding over the o-ring. I had to use a dremel and a sanding drum to bevel the edge on the new cap. A little silicone grease on the o-ring and the cap and the cap then seated properly. Of course I broke a rotor when the cap wasn't seated properly but it was a lesson learned.
If you removed the dist. from the engine, you might check to see if it's firing near top dead center on a commpression stroke. Good luck Dave

 

[Soot]

Thanks everyone for your info and advice. Short update.

I have ignition Actually had it running briefly an a small amount of gas and starter fluid. (Gas tank is off of it for easier access)

I ended up taking everything apart from coil to plugs and all the distributor bits then testing / reinstalling. Never found the exact problem spot, but when reassembled, it was all good Figures.

Still need to verify regulator / generator is working but first need to get tank back on and try for a real start.

I'll start doing reading on how to test regulator and gen as I know there are many posts on that subject.

Thanks again all for the help and information . I have learned alot

 

[Soundguy]

makes sure you turn in the right direction.. pulling plugs helps!

soundguy

 

[Redneck in training]

Thanks everyone for your info and advice. Short update.

I have ignition Actually had it running briefly an a small amount of gas and starter fluid. (Gas tank is off of it for easier access)

I ended up taking everything apart from coil to plugs and all the distributor bits then testing / reinstalling. Never found the exact problem spot, but when reassembled, it was all good Figures.

Still need to verify regulator / generator is working but first need to get tank back on and try for a real start.

I'll start doing reading on how to test regulator and gen as I know there are many posts on that subject.

Thanks again all for the help and information . I have learned alot

To quickly check the regulator wait for dark, start the engine and run it at idle while shining lights on some vertical flat surface. Then increase rpm. If the lights go brigter the regulator is most likley working.
6V battery should have 7.2 V while charging, 6.7 V to keep it charged without boiling the acid.

 

[Soundguy]

ammeter will tell you all that without waiting for it to get dark..

soundguy

 

[Soot]

Ok I'm back and still dead or at least not running yet...

I checked Genny and she works (motors), reinstalled gas tank and everything except airfilter and pipe going to carb intake.

Opened up gas line and saw that I was getting gas through to carb by pulling drain plug. All ok.

Tried to start supplementing with starting fluid - got ignition and some backfires which was not a surprise since it has been 3 years since she was last running. Keeping the starter cranking, this continued for a while then she started coughing fuel (not just a light spray but lots of gas) out of the intake to the carb. A couple of backfires later and I had a small fire going. Thankfully I had a fire extinguisher right at hand and no damage was done.

So what would cause the engine to blow gas backward through the carb? A carb problem, a stuck valve or a timing issue, other? When I stop cranking the gas stops coming out of the carb if that means anything. I am now really in way over my head now so any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Soot

 

[zman007007]

IMHO I would use carb. cleaner and not starting fluid that stuff will ruin engines. zman

 

[DaveOmak]

Soot, Well, you're learning the ins and outs of it all. I believe I had a similar problem with the carb and fuel on my NAA. I removed the card and found some rust in the float needle which either held the needle open or closed. Fuel will still run out of the float bowl and maybe flood the carb. My fuel tank had rust in it.
There might be a sediment bowl on the bottom of the fuel tank. Check it and clean it. Also check for water. Condensation can occur fairly easily and water sits in the bottom of the tank. Doesn't burn too well though. Remove the carb and check for dirt etc. Float sounds like it's OK but make sure it is "empty". No holes etc.
When all is clean to your inspection, I would install an inline fuel filter. Along with the sediment bowl, you'll have 2 systems to stop dirt and water.
Now for the ??????. I don't think a starter can run backwards. How is it, you can get a sizeable amount of spray out of the carb? Had someone worked on engine and got the cam out of time? That's a flat head I think. Did mice make a nest in the engine and do you have valves sticking? I've seen all of this in one place or another. Not necessarily on tractors though.
Too much thinking for 7am for me. More coffee. I'll sit back and see what others come up with. Dave
When encountering a problem, the solution is in the last place you look!

 

[Soundguy]

timing , valve timing, and or a stuck valve can cause compression thru the intake.

soundguy

 

[tommu56]

My vote is for stuck intake valve it's open when you get spark and ignition in cyl and it carry's back through manifold to carb.

Like others said carb cleaner isn't as explosive as starting fluid but it still gets the job doine.

Do you have any way to tow it safely Id leave fuel off ignition off and drag it around the yard in 2 or 3 gear to loosen things up.

Then try carb cleaner to see if it will start and run on it and not backfire when you get that far then rebuild the carb an get it running on fuel .

tom