Home Generators

[whistlepig]

We've had a little Coleman 4500 8HP B&S engine since 1992 or 1993. I only run it about twice a year. I keep stabil in the gas to keep it from spoiling. Other than the occasional power outage that lasts 1-2 hours we only used it during one disaster where it ran for 3 days off and on. The thing works well for the price. About $400.00.

I am guilty of back feeding. I shut off the main disconnect under the meter and then the main breaker in the panel. I turn off all the breakers in the main panel, then head out to the unattached garage, which has a 50AMP 220V sub panel. I have a 30 AMP outlet in the garage that I back feed with a male-male cord. Once everything is plugged in and the generator grounded, I start it, let it warm up a few minutes, then return to the house and turn on the needed breakers. I watch the neighbor's lights to see if the power returns.

The reason I went this way is because the cost of an interlock or transfer switch and an outside outlet on the side of the house is just too expensive for a once a year situation. The only dangers I see is me forgetting to pull TWO breakers, not plugging in the male cord before starting the generator, or forgetting to turn off the generator before turning the two breakers back on again or removing the male cable. None of that is likely as I am the only one that performs the procedure and I have it rehearsed and practiced.

For everyone else I would recommend a professionally installed transfer switch. If we ever build a new home, I will get a proper installation.

I have a disconnect on my 220V well pump with a pigtail. When the power goes out I pull the disconnect and plug the pigtail directly to the well pump from the generator. This isolates the house wiring. No back feed. My pellet stove is plugged directly by a cord to the generator. No back feed. My refridgerators and freezer are plugged in to my generator by an extension cords. No back feed. I run an extension cord from the generator to power the lights and TV. No back feed. It's a hassle running these extension cords and hooking these things up. Takes a couple of hours on a cold winter night. But we don't have that many power outages here. And our house won't burn down and the linesmen are safe. Or you can buy a power management system for an additional $1,400.00. With $2,500 dollars invested in a Honda generator and considering $1,400 for a power management system that's $3,900. If it's not affordable then it won't be done at all. Not an option here in the country.

 

[ultrarunner]

That's precisely the fault that concerns me. According to the scientists, we are about 100 years overdue for "the big one". Apparently I am leaning towards a diesel unit. Otherwise, I would have already have purchased a NG unit through a BIL of mine who runs a HVAC company and offered to sell me one at cost. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I really do have a major concern about not being to use such a generator (NG) when I'd really need it for an extended period of time. As I've mentioned in another thread, for what I want, my electrician 'sized' me to need between a 40k minimum and likely a 50k unit. Those sizes seem to be relatively common in diesel.

Quite a few of the local Hospitals here in Earthquake country had Natural Gas Generators... never a problem and no fuel storage issues...

After the Loma Prieta Earthquake we had to upgrade to either Propane or Diesel... to comply with the new on site fuel requirement.

Just about all of us went Diesel because in the event of a prolonged outage, Diesel would have a higher probability of being available... even the county has disaster protocol to deliver Diesel from the county fuel depot to area Hospitals if needed...

We use Onan Gensets Rated at 150kw standby and 125kw prime powered by Cummins Turbo Diesels...

For my home, I would probably go Propane since I have it on site and because it will not get stale... also Diesel Storage here is another problem unless you have an ag exemption... and then all Permanent Diesel Gensets have to be registered and the annual operating permit is around $600 per year and total non-emergency run time must not exceed 30 hours per year.

Maybe Propane with a Honda 5000 gas for back-up or a trailer mounted diesel unit with it's own self-contained fuel tank???

 

[MossRoad]

I have a disconnect on my 220V well pump with a pigtail. When the power goes out I pull the disconnect and plug the pigtail directly to the well pump from the generator. This isolates the house wiring. No back feed. My pellet stove is plugged directly by a cord to the generator. No back feed. My refridgerators and freezer are plugged in to my generator by an extension cords. No back feed. I run an extension cord from the generator to power the lights and TV. No back feed. It's a hassle running these extension cords and hooking these things up. Takes a couple of hours on a cold winter night. But we don't have that many power outages here. And our house won't burn down and the linesmen are safe. Or you can buy a power management system for an additional $1,400.00. With $2,500 dollars invested in a Honda generator and considering $1,400 for a power management system that's $3,900. If it's not affordable then it won't be done at all. Not an option here in the country.

We thought about putting twist locks on everything and using cords. A good safe solution, but a pain in the neck. By the time you add up the twist locks and the cords for everything, then having to leave a door or window cracked open to run the cord through, plus the changing of the cords each time you want to run a large load, the hassle and cost factors rise.

As far as burning down the house, well, that seems to be highly unlikely to happen. The generator is in an open shed 30' from the house and plugged in with a properly rated cord. The circuits are all sized properly. There is no more a chance of me burning down the house than there is using utility company power. I don't have the need to spend $4000 on a power backup system when $400 will do the job for us.

 

[MossRoad]

... As I've mentioned in another thread, for what I want, my electrician 'sized' me to need between a 40k minimum and likely a 50k unit. Those sizes seem to be relatively common in diesel.

YIKES! I just re-read those power requirements. You got a big teepee?

Just kidding. I know some folks that want to live during a power outage the same way they do during normal electrical availability. If you have the funds, go for it.

 

[Highbeam]

I also wonder about the whole floating neutral thing. I have a 4-wire connection to my genset through the inspected and approved whole house transfer panel. So the ground and neutral all go through the panel to the ground rods. The genset itself just sets out there with the twistlok hooked to it. No seperate ground rod for a chassis ground. Is that needed? It wasn't part of my inspection. Why would it be needed?

A whole house transfer panel is accomplished by a 150$ interlock kit on the panel, a 7 dollar 30 amp breaker, some wire, and a 30 amp male twistlok plug on the wall. All legal and approved by your local AHJ. Don't be fooled into thinking you need a 1400$ power management system.

 

[hr3]

It dosn't have to cost thousands to do it right.. http://www.squared.com/us/products/safety_switches.nsf/unid/58730BADE9B1D53085256CE500728C1B/$file/doublethrowsafetyswitchFrameset.htm

A simple manual switch is all you need.. I can't see calling my wife at home telling her to pull out the old jenny,,get her going then plug in this piggy tail thing,,but Oooo don't forget to turn off the top switch,,,then throw on the little one on the left,,,,,, Nahhh I love her too much for that,,don't want her fryed,,,.. Hmmm maybe one of the kids can do it...

 

[coobie]

It is funny.

You also have the guys that start screaming about backfeeding an entire grid. I guess in Michigan our generators are the only ones with 30 amp breakers. Every time I try to use too much in my own house it trips. I can only imagine how well it'd supply voltage to a whole neighborhood.

Being a electric lineman here in Michigan for 30 plus years I CAN TELL YOU it can BE DONE,as in I have seen it.Not to long ago a local farmer was back feeding about 2 miles of line from a 6500 watt gen.that he had hooked up incorrect.coobie

 

[BungeeII]

Being a electric lineman here in Michigan for 30 plus years I CAN TELL YOU it can BE DONE,as in I have seen it.Not to long ago a local farmer was back feeding about 2 miles of line from a 6500 watt gen.that he had hooked up incorrect.coobie

Holy crap, Coobie. The chances of going 200 yards around here without powering another house is slim, let alone 2 miles. You must be in Amish country.

 

[MossRoad]

Being a electric lineman here in Michigan for 30 plus years I CAN TELL YOU it can BE DONE,as in I have seen it.Not to long ago a local farmer was back feeding about 2 miles of line from a 6500 watt gen.that he had hooked up incorrect.coobie

Yeah, I recall a news story around here where some guy was back feeding his house with a generator and several of the neighbors houses, too, through the power lines. They all shared a common transformer. I think they did an interview with the power company that was restoring power after the storm. The guy was real proud of the fact the he was powering the neighbors' houses, too. The lineman mentioned he could kill someone that way and told the guy he would have to turn off the generator before anyone in the neighborhood would get power restored.

As for generator related deaths and injuries, I would be more worried about carbon monoxide poisoning. It seems several people, even entire families, die around here each year by running generators in their garages. The exhaust kills them in their sleep. They don't want the generator stolen, so they close the garage door. Some even leave it open a crack, but not enough to let the fumes out. Really sad when an entire family dies that way.

 

[ByronBob]

I built my house so I cheated a bit. But they breaker boxes that are wired correctly for the alternate power inside the box. This was only a $500 upgrade and it was worth it.