Track loader ASV CAT or Takeauchi

[Pfm1011]

I have 160 acres in Toronto which is 60 acres white pine bush , 90 acres of scrubland which has not been touched for 30 years. The place is going to be turned into a weekend getaway/estate.

Land has a few hills but some mildly wet land near the river which I will just keep away from in the spring. main land is niagara clay so not fun in the wet.

The Forest needs to be thinned ( 40 year old white pine growing 5 feet apart in sections which will have to be thinned ) so I want to go thru and mulch trails . Most cutting will be 2 inch or below. Big trees to be pulled off by someone else

On the scrub I need to regrade sections, Expand natural ponds, run a 1500 ft driveway etc. Regrade drainage ditches . Prep ten acres for 7000 white pine planting

I need to buy a track steer , 84 inch 6 way dozer blade, Rock bucket, Root grapple and Hammer flail (fc200) or small mulcher or maybe just a big brush cutter.

I want to buy a used track loader , Used but under 2 or 3 years old 1000 hours with Cab. Must be joysticked as it will be 8 hours use at a time and the wife will be using it also.

For a carrier I have looked at ASV rc85 and rc100, Cat 277B and Tak TL150 ( gehl/mustang). (high flow)

The unit will never touch gravel or asphalt and probably will only be used a 100 to 200 hours a year initially then sit for a month at a time then be used for little jobs. I need it to start every time, including winter

I have read alot about the ASV/Cat track problems and associated costs.
The tak has a higher ground pressure 4.1 and the cat and tak have low departure angles (around 28 degrees , ASV 60 degrees)

Forgetting purchase price. Which machine is going to give me the least headaches/downtime etc. I will be doing this on weekends and I cant afford to spend a day fixing the machine and I want this machine to last . Since this will sit alot I am concerned with electrical problems popping up.

Other then the track problems , DO ASV have other problems?electrical etc

With the TAK stiff suspension, Is the ride that bad or does the seat take care of that? Is the taks higher ground pressure going to be a problem or am I over thinking this.?

Is lack of High flow on the Cat a real problem or is 20 enough for most users

There is width differences but I can live with that , However the ASV is high and thin. Is this a slope problem or are they still fairly stable. Can it be rolled or do you have to be an idiot to lay it on its side. It shows 15 degree max but I presume that is with bucket high.

Does the TAK have that much more pull power and will it make a huge difference using the dozer blade or is it just marketing

Piles of question...essentially whats the best choice of the three for dependability and bang for the buck? Also there is Bobcat t300 and 250 to look at.

Any input would be really appreciated

Should also mention have jd5105 and Kuhn /nobilli bne 210 flail for the grass

 

[TMTS]

Some quick "I my humble opinion thoughts"

- I wound not worry about the ground pressure increase with the Tak...not too much of a diff.

- I think you'll want the high flow

- ASV will have higher upkeep on its tracks...the tracks on an ASV start to go around 1000 hrs- and depending on the previous use, wheels and bearing seals go around 1800 hrs- starts to get expensive- I have no idea on the Taks. ASV makes the tracks on CAT skid steers so I would think you'll see similar issues and costs

- ASV's also have A/C issues- but so do a lot of other skid-steer machines.

- look into a CAT 299 with the new track system...might be just the ticket (oops just saw the need to have a used machine)

Can you rent/demo a machine? Most now have joysticks and are easy to run...but there might be a few small differences that help steer you one way or the other...

 

[jmfox]

I have an ASV SR80 and I did have some electrical problems due to bad starter, but the air was not a problem (Red Dot). After running it for full season I can say it is a hard worker and a pleasure to operate. The suspension takes the abuse rather than passing it on to the driver and there is a price, but it all seems worth it at the end of day. I did run a Tak140 before purchasing and there was a marked difference. It had a nervous response and the suspension was a pass through when it came to rough terrain. The Tak was also slow. The turn around times on the ASV were much faster, and the traveling speed is significantly greater than any competitor (12mph).

jmf

 

[tlbuser]

Currently on my second ASV machine. Guess I'm lucky cause neither one of mine have tracks that went bad with low hours (ASV warraty is 2 yrs., 1000 hours). One of my competitors is running a 4810 with no significant track issues either, so......maybe one operator makes a huge difference, not sure. Both of us do "rotate" our tracks, a trick the 4810 guy told me to do, left to right and front to back. I do not run a mulcher, but have used an ambusher mower. I have been a happy owner without major issues so far.
Cat is famous for having superior parts support.

 

[Pfm1011]

Rotating track...darn good idea.. also gives you a good look at the UC to check for problems and good clean out

The problem I have with ASV is I am stuck buying used and there is a pile of ASV units that are severely abused.. Young kids want to start a mulching business and drive the crap out of the machines and dont stick a penny into it..until the bank grabs them..

The only repo's I see for sale are ASV.. I looked at 2 last week 600 hours U/C and tracks were completely, and I mean completely, shot . One still had the original oil factory filter rusted on at 650 hours. Then again there was a Bobcat t190 with 1800 hours and the oil filter was marked 650 hrs ..

Seems in the used market you have to tread lightly

 

[AlanB]

IMO, if you are locked into a used machine, the particular machine (whatever brand / model) you find will be most important from your set of criteriea.

Not to be offensive, but your post reminds me of one of the phrases I like to use.

We offer three things, quick service, low prices and high quality, you can pick any two of the above.

You are asking for all three, and while it comes along occassionally, you have to be lucky or often in the business to find that deal.

You need to weigh out what trumps what, price (used machine) or up time and repairs.

From the sound of it, I would suggest you go with the best condition machine you can find in your price range, that has a willing and supporting dealer and parts network close by. Preferabally buying from the dealer that you will be getting support from.

All the machine's break. It is minimizing that downtime, and getting it going again that is the trick to me, and a key part of that is being able to lay hands on the Parts, Tools, and People to give you a hand when needed.

Hope you find one that works for you.

 

[cann mulching]

I have an '05 ASV RC-100 & with a 1050hrs the machine still has original tracks. Now I have repaired 1 side a few lugs ripped off & I bought replacement lugs & working fine. i have tried to sell my machine but I have too much in it & nobody wants to give payoff, so I am running full time & making money. I service & repair mine myself. Being a owner & operater you take better care of your machine.
The other day a customer said I would think your machine would have alot more scratches than it does going in the woods like it does. I said yea but I own this one & I pay for it too.
You just have to look around alot & don't settle for first one you come across!

 

[Cat_Driver]

I wanted to go ASV but couldn't find a stocking dealer within 200 miles of me so I called ASV and asked for some assistance. There attitude help me decide and get a CAT.
I called CAT and they were all over me like a cheap suite, had a demo delivered to my job site and their attitude was amazing.I signed that day.

Thy clinched it even more when I called for an oil change. They sent a 250K fluids truck to me with all the fluids and filters and I was back running in a couple of hours. With ASV I would have to haul my rig two hours back and forth.

Since CAT has the ASV track and CAT service I got the best of both worlds.

Here it is lifting WAY MORE than speced.

 

[jmfox]

You might want to call Cat and get that track tightened.

jmf

I wanted to go ASV but couldn't find a stocking dealer within 200 miles of me so I called ASV and asked for some assistance. There attitude help me decide and get a CAT.
I called CAT and they were all over me like a cheap suite, had a demo delivered to my job site and their attitude was amazing.I signed that day.

Thy clinched it even more when I called for an oil change. They sent a 250K fluids truck to me with all the fluids and filters and I was back running in a couple of hours. With ASV I would have to haul my rig two hours back and forth.

Since CAT has the ASV track and CAT service I got the best of both worlds.

Here it is lifting WAY MORE than speced.

 

[TMTS]

JMF- that was the first thing I noticed when I looked at that photos also...got to "Do the tighten up..."

 

[Tags]

Keep in mind that dealer support for major repairs (if ever needed) is important as well. If the local dealer for whatever brand you decide on has a bad rep, that would weigh quite heavily on my decision. Also availability of parts, aftermarket or OEM, should be considered as well. It seems that ASV and Cat parts are SLOWLY becoming available from non-OEM manufacturers.

I have a Cat and I love the way it operates BUT my local Cat dealer blows and offered very little support when it came to warrantee issues. Needless to say, I won't be buying a Cat again. As far as the tracks wearing out, I am the only one that operates my machine and currently have 900 hrs on it and the tracks have nicks and cuts but I would imagine they have at least 400 more hours left on em'. The Taks, Bobcats, and New Hollands undercarriages definitely hold up to abuse better than the ASV system, but any one of the undercarriages could be destroyed quite quickly if the operator is careless of how and where the machine is used.

 

[Landwise]

Let me add my two cents. I have owned several ASV's and now own my first Tak 150 (Modified by super tracks, but still the same base machine)

The Tak will push the ASV around... The traction force placed on the ground for the ASV is around 6000lbs, vs the Tak at 13,200 lbs. That's only a few hundred pounds shy of a CAT D3 dozer.

The Tak rides like a dozer, but I can deal with that. I would NOT recomend an ASV over a Tak.

If you are looking at a CAT, it is essentially the same ( I know some will disagree with me, but oh well..) as the ASV. Maybe a little more dependable. The joke is that my ASVs will work for 40 hours, then have to go to the shop. I now have over 400 hours on my Tak, and it has only been in the shop once.

 

[vegman]

My TAK/Supertrak TL150 has had a terrible childhood. She was subjected to physical abuse from the day she left the orphanage. The woods and a mulching head have to be the ultimate prooving grounds. She has given a very reliable 1500 hours. I also ran a TL130 for the first time today. That was also a sweet little machine. Very responsive.

 

[C.G.S.]

The RC 100 lacks tracktive effort and I do not think the tracks would hold up to the planetry drives of other machines. It dose have best out box cooling and flow ,oil cap. for a none dedicated machine. I use mine for mulching stump grinding some grading.I would not recommend it for heavy digging.I do my own repairs and I can tell you that a track motor is $1860.00 form ASV and $3000.00 plus for the same motor part number and all from CAT. Turn around the same as well. I hear a lot people complaining about ASV durability but I think the way people run any of these machine makes you wonder what would hold up. As other manufactors come up to speed in the mulching field there while be better out of the box choices time will tell. It depends on what you are going to use it for as well as how you are going to use it. None of these skidd loader machine will run with a 400HP dedicated mulcher they all have there place.

 

[jmfox]

Let me add my two cents. I have owned several ASV's and now own my first Tak 150

What model ASV's have you owned?

jmf

 

[cbturf]

He has an RC-100 in his avatar.

 

[Pfm1011]

I really appreciate everyones advice.

I picked up a 2006 Takeuchi TL150 ( low flow) I have a lot of grading required so the extra push of this unit should come in handy as Im grabbing a 84 or 96 inch dozer blade. Also the systems seem to use substantially less electronics then the ASV / CAT so "should" be more dependable especially with the long periods of sitting between jobs.

In regards to the ride, I found the ASV sort of "wobbly and bouncy". I liked the heavy feel of the Tak. Feels more "stable". Also the cost of the U/C parts and tracks were insane on the ASV/CAT. Looks like you can spend $8 to $10 an operating hour just on the U/C. ASV has way too much fiberglass for my liking. Even 3 or 400 hour machines had damage to the engine covers.

It should be noted that I was looking at a CAT 277B and tried to get some info from CAT in regards to history and build sheet of a units I was looking at . Cat was absolutely useless and very arrogant. All the company would do is send me to the dealers. Couldnt understand that I was buying private and the dealers would not help me out. They literally made it impossible to get any info.

Before buying a CAT keep in mind that they will do everything possible to ensure you cant sell your unit privately and you can forget factory support. With this experience, I will never buy a CAT product as they have no use for end users and are clueless idiots that dont understand that if a owner cant sell his used unit, he wont buy a new unit. Essentially CATs attitude was buy from one of our dealers at rediculous prices or bugger off.

Phoned both Mustang and Takeuchi. Both were amazing and provided tons of info and assistance and they both knew I was buying used privately.

In my shopping frenzy I also just grabbed a FC-200 Hammer Flail.

Again, thanks for the advice, I would have been completely lost without this site and your assistance

 

[Johndeere3720]

Try a johndeere CT332 track skidsteer. It may have a little less horsepower but it out works the compeditor. Go to johndeere.com and into the construction section. Watch the skidsteer smackdown and witness how much stronger the Deere is compared to Cat and Bobcat. I showed this to my dad and step mom when they were looking for a skidsteer and they went Deere. We looked at the Bobcat T190, a Newholland, and the Deere CT322 and Deere was the best machine. Pape machinery gave them a great deal on a slightly used CT322 and we hauled it home. We had to drive down to California to get it but it was worth it. Ive seen a few CT332's on craigslist lately for $20,000 less than a new one! When on Johndeere.com, compare the CT332 to your other choices and it will be the better machine. I loved driving both models at the dealer, and it out preforms all others on the job. I was even given my own key and a movie of the CT322 and CT332 against the other brands. They have a low center of gravity, lift much more weight, drive faster with 2 speed option, pushes more, ect. you wont be dissapointed!

 

[deereboy72]

caterpillar bought the company asv just kept the name and asv uses cat undercarriage takeuchi has some good equipment but i prefer caterpillar

 

[GreenWannabe]

caterpillar bought the company asv just kept the name and asv uses cat undercarriage takeuchi has some good equipment but i prefer caterpillar

Some bad info here. Terex bought ASV about a year ago. Cat owned 23.5% interest, and supported the buyout, according to ASV's press release. Cat uses ASV undercarriages on their multi-terrain loaders (but not their newer design compact track loaders, as I understand).