Dongfeng Purchace- Which One?

TTTTTT · Sep 28, 2008

Hi, All

I have a decision that I have been waiting to make for quite awhile but need a little input from all the experienced owners out there. I have a good deal on either of two new 2007 Dongfeng tractors.
The two are either the DF254G2 - 25HP, full syncro SS, with Townsunny FEL and/or Tonwsunny BH, or the DF354 - 35HP, manual trans with similiar FEL and/or BH. The differences are obvious for size & HP but the 354 has 1459lbs 3pth lift while the smaller 254 has only 933 lbs. The 254 has the SS which would be great for FEL work and any other back & forth work while the 354 has the manual tranny but is pretty smooth. The 354 has the better clearances but is a little bigger for tight spots than the 254. They are both good tractors with benefits both ways. I've always heard to go bigger is you can but would 25 HP be plenty for my needs. The 354 is more $'s but not to the degree of ruling it out. My uses would be maintaining/plowing about 1000' of driveway, some log/stump removal, grading, some trenching, land clearing on potenially on some 50ac. of property. No plans for mowing, cultivating or other traditional farm uses. Also would industrial tires fit the bill for most of my work or AGs if I was in some rougher bush areas.
All comments would be appreciated. I plan on making a decision this week. If I didn't have a choice between the two it would make it a lot easier.

Thanks Dave

Diamondpilot · Sep 28, 2008

I really like the 25HP tractors for chore tractors. I have a 25 HP Jinma. I would look at what really matters to you. Yes the 354 will out work the 254 but does it fit your needs? I would also never own a tractor with turf tires or R4's. Ags are much better in the snow, woods, fields, ect. The only place I see a use for turfs is if all you do is mow and the only place I see a place for R4's is if you only use it on asphalt, like loading mulch at a nursery.

Chris

3RRL · Sep 28, 2008

I agree with Chris.
Which one fits your needs best? No doubt they are both good tractors, just one has more capacity than the other.
Are you ever gonna need it? If you think "yes" then get the larger, heavier, stronger tractor. If not and the 254 fits the bill, get that one. Each has it's benefits ... depending on your intended use.
LOL ... I know secretly you want one of us to make up your mind for you.

greg_g · Sep 29, 2008

TTTTTT said:
My uses would be maintaining/plowing about 1000' of driveway, some log/stump removal, grading, some trenching, land clearing on potenially on some 50ac. of property. No plans for mowing, cultivating or other traditional farm uses. Also would industrial tires fit the bill for most of my work or AGs if I was in some rougher bush areas.

In most cases, bigger is better. I initially bought a 24hp 2wd with turfs, but it turned out to be a 3 season tractor. Turfs and 2wd were useless in mud/snow/ice/wet hillsides. So I went 4wd (25hp) and ag tires. Traction ceased to be a problem, but 25hp proved inadequate power for the hillsides - wet or dry. Low range was too slow on level ground or downhill, but high range couldn't put enough power on the ground to get back UPhill. Reverse was so slow I'd be tempted to take a nap. So I moved up to 35 and a 45, both with 4wd/ag tires/shuttle shift. Should have started there in the first place.

I don't think industrial tires (R4) are a good idea once you leave concrete/ashpalt in spring/summer/fall - and will probably be nearly as useless as turfs on snow/ice. I also think you'd be happier with the reserve power that 35hp would give you. But - for the purposes you listed - I think you'll get more use out of the shuttle shift capability than you will with the extra 10hp. Too bad you can't find a 35hp with shuttle shift.

//greg//

TTTTTT · Sep 29, 2008

Great comments so far. The experiences with AG vs. industrial are what I needed to hear. I was leaning that way anyway but you guys confirm that more. As for SS vs. the more HP and other items, I am again leaning to the 354. I don't think my loader work would be as extensive. I would hope after getting things broken in, that the shifting would't be as big a deal. The question of 3ph weight being only 933 lb. on the 254 vs. 1450lbs. on the 354. Do you see the less on the 254 as an issue. I realize the heaviest thing I may lift would be the 3pt BH at about 1100lb.s.

Thanks again Dave

3RRL · Sep 29, 2008

Now that I re-read your post, money is not the factor either. In your case, I see you're leaning to the 354. It will be up to how you intend to use the tractor. Greg makes a great point on his use and what he did. You can never have too much traction, weight and stability and the extra power is great. Even on the 3pt end. Is the manual tranny on the 354 a shuttle shift also? Shuttle is really nice for loader work so it's too bad you can't get it on the 354. Is it available on the next size up DF? I went big on my first tractor (55hp) and later got a smaller one for my wife. There were so many things I could never have done with hers, but now, a lot of maintenance can be done with it. It is nimble and fun to work. There are many times I will jump on hers and do some of the chores. I find myself using the big Kama for heavy duty stuff.
I would go with the Ag tires, but I've never personally had any other style. From what I've read, they are the way to go for your property description and needs.

TTTTTT · Sep 29, 2008

The 354 does not have the SS, if it had I think my decision would be made. It is going to be available down the road and Chip at Agtrac has it in a 30HP in the smaller size. That would probably be ok but I am looking at a very good deal with either of these two. Loader work would not be extensive but down the road you never know. The SS may be great for the loader work ,but if I don't have power for what I want to move, I guess it kind of negates that. I'm going tomorrow to hopefully finalize things and test out both. Any more comments are welcome.

Dave

bluechip · Sep 29, 2008

The our 254G2 prototypes had changchai engines, if the 254G2 has the 1.8 liter engine, it is the same engine as in our 30HP model, just lower top rpm speed. it would be your best buy. there is no comparison operating a tractor with syncho shuttle shift, and the syncho trans gears are nice too. this tractor compares to korean quality from an operation standpoint.

toys4dirt · Sep 29, 2008

I agree with Chip. We sell both, but I prefer the 254G2 transmission. Both are good tractors though.

TTTTTT · Sep 30, 2008

bluechip said:
The our 254G2 prototypes had changchai engines, if the 254G2 has the 1.8 liter engine, it is the same engine as in our 30HP model, just lower top rpm speed. it would be your best buy. there is no comparison operating a tractor with syncho shuttle shift, and the syncho trans gears are nice too. this tractor compares to korean quality from an operation standpoint.

Thanks Chip, you just made it a little harder!. It does have the 1.8 liter Changchai engine. All kidding aside, the 254 having the same engine can it be easily tweeked it to get the extra HP, there are some other benefits of the 354 that I also must consider. I will know a lot more today after doing a little hands on work.

Dave

Bryan_Gardiner · Nov 3, 2008

Dave, I hope you have not made your decision yet. I was a dealer for dongfeng tractors and my dist went out of buisness and left me high and dry for parts and support. It is possible to get parts for the tractors but you should make sure that the dealer that is selling you the tractor is able to get the parts for you for years to come. Now with that said, I also do small excavating and for the money that you will spend on a 354 with loader and backhoe you should look at a used John Deere 110 TLB. I bought mine for $21000 with 1800 hours on it and it is a 2003. The r-4 tires will do everything you need it to do and the hydro transmission is worlds above the shuttle and the manual transmission. You also get a quick connect bucket and front hydraulics. The bucket controls are much more comfortable than a chinese tractor ever will be and you get a truly commercial grade hoe that will dig 11 feet. Just my 2 cents worth, but I have owned and worked chinese, grey market, and john deere tractors and the 110 has been the best investment ever. Bryan.

bluechip · Nov 4, 2008

Bryan, we have found DongFeng to be very easy to deal with since the exclusive arragement with the prior distributor ended. We have used this factory exclusively as a source for our new AgTrac brand tractors and the performance, both in terms of tractor reliability and parts support from the factory have been very good. We stock a huge assortment of parts for the current generation of DF tractor. We have found many of the current parts do not fit older models due to improved design,but we can often upgrade the assembly to current spec or special order the parts from the factory for the older style tractors. If you have customers who bought DF tractors from you in the past and need parts, I'd be happy to try to help. I do agree that if a commercial grade backhoe is what you need, then that is what you should buy. Yanmar also makes a nice unit, very similar (Is the 110 a yanmar product?). The versatility for the cost is what makes these tractors attractive. Someone that needs the 110 should not consider a smaller tractor with an "accessory" backhoe. but someone that needs an economical tractor that occasionally needs a 7' backhoe might be better served with a brand new tractor at a lower investment level.

TTTTTT · Nov 4, 2008

Hi Bryan and thanks Chip for the response.

I did get the DF354 with loader and 6' 3pt BH which should be more than enough for my now and future needs. I appreciate the comments, but my DF354 with FEL & BH came in at $9900 including all taxes assembled (not the BH) with 34 hrs. on it .I would have loved to get a newer name brand but for this price the only thing I could have come close to is a 30 yr. old 2WD totally manual with 2000+ hours and I wasn't about or could spend the the $21,000 for your JD. I so far love the tractor and and everything works great. The FEL controls are very smooth and I could do very fine feathering when lifting my boat up without a scratch. Maybe the quality is finally getting into the finished products compared with earlier Chineese models. The way I will be using it it should fill my needs. I do understand that maybe in 10 yrs time or sooner, I may be on my own for certain parts, but hopefully with the help of people like Chip and many others on the forums I will get by any issues.

Thanks Dave

Here Are a few pics

Diamondpilot · Nov 4, 2008

Thats a **** of a buy. I would love to see a pic of the BH you got with the deal.

Chris

TTTTTT · Nov 4, 2008

Hi Chris,

Its one that I couldn't pass up!! That BH is still in a crate and will probably not get to it until the spring. It is a Townsunny BH which has a good reputation compared to some of the other Chinees BH's

Townsunny
???? 1

Changchai Engine
ChangChai Co., Ltd.

Dave

bluechip · Nov 4, 2008

Dave,
It looks like your dealer just plugged the loader hoses into the remotes. We did this on our first tractor and had trouble using the 3 point and loader at the same time. You have a quick connect under the right floor board that can be used for loader attachment. You may want to take the hoses to a hyd shop and have them shortened. If you do this, you will free up the rear remotes and can use the loader or 3 point without having to change the valve position. The townsunney backhoe is much nicer than the LW series made in other chinese factories. it is a completely different design. The valve supplier seems to make a good valve, teh joystick on the loader is comparable to those we have seen on US built loaders, complete with float position.

TTTTTT · Nov 5, 2008

Hi Chip,
Yes you are right, you operate them separately. Thanks for the tip about the other connection. I will check that. Yes it does have float and power beyond and is very smooth. The tranny, and hydraulics are one combined reservoir. It was reccomended that using a common fluid/oil like TDH or AW32 hydraulic for all and usual 80W90 gear in the front drive would be fine. Would you agree with this?

Dave

bluechip · Nov 5, 2008

Use a "trans/hydraulic" fluid, don't use AW32 or straight hyd. oil, it is too thin and won't lube the gears properly.Something that meets the old John Deere 303 spec is probably all you need. there are newer specs. We use "HY TRANS" I don't know who makes it.

TTTTTT · Nov 5, 2008

Thanks Chip,

I figured that as these DF's are not like the older or even newer JM's etc.I'll use a good TDH. It makes it easier this way only one fill to worry about. As for the quick connect for FEL, the pic shows the connection.

So disconnect the hose from the pump side of the quick connect and connect to the supply in for the FEL. The return line from the FEL then goes straight to the coupling secured in the bracket? As I have 2 male ends at the moment, I may have to change the one to female after shortening the hoses. Just putting the FEL control valve plumbed in line from the pump to the reservoir? Is this correct as I am not an expert on hydraulics.

Thanks again

Diamondpilot · Nov 6, 2008

Just to jump in here. I would just get rid of the QC's all together and put in swivel fittings. That way you would not be concerned with them coming uncoupled and trashing a pump.

Chris