Kioti thread cencorship?

[jim_n_nh]

I have discussed this with the administrator and understand his point of view. I think towards the end my emotions entered into my writings But...

Is it fair to pull all of my threads, some of which had over 5000 hits because some dealers and possibly Kioti were upset. If nothing else I was generating traffic to the site, but unlike the dealers... I wasn't paying for advertising.

The idea of posting was given to me by the mechanic at Upper Valley Tractor when they came to pick up the Kioti. He stated to me that it was a great forum. I guess he might regret this decision currently.

I think just finding the service bulletin (legally) and posting it justified having it. I have had contact over the last week with multiple Kioti dealers that will never get a sale from me but are trying to get me in contact with Kioti. Without the posting that would not be possible.

Let's put it to a vote, in the future I will try to stay more on focus, and you get to read it in uncensored media. What do you think??

Thank You,

Jim

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

In my opinion, what gets people upset is that there is no clear policy of whats permissible and whats not. I had noticed your post about the financial state of Kioti/Daedong which is a very good discussion to be having right now given the state of the economy, but apparently that's not allowed... however, a 150 page thread about the failure of FarmTrac is totally okay and has been going on for 8-9 months. This comes off looking like censorship and pandering to potential advertisers in what should be a public forum.

TBN should have a set of rules in place that should be enforced by the moderators. Those rules should be gospel, regardless of who is making the request for an exception.

 

[SESS]

On the home page of TBN it states: Welcome to TractorByNet.com---The World's Largest Compact Tractor Community!

Customers, consumers, dealers, manufactures, etc all read this site and obviously it is very well excepted and appreciated. I for one find the threads very interesting reading and very informative. The internet is a wicked tool! Both for the good and the bad! Readers have faith in TBN because there is a wealth of opinions, first hand experience and knowledge that we can all learn from.

I personally believe that people should be able to state their views-if someone has had an experience or been involved in an eqiupment "flaw", they should be able to post their comments, concerns and views for everyone to be made aware of. I think the manufactures of the different brands that are mentioned on this site, should also heed the words of the viewers because if a viewer is pointing out a problem that is better for the manufacturer in the long run. Same goes for a dealer that has had a negative experience with a customer. People are human, everyone has an opinion, and anything man made is not perfect! Things break!

I just hope that censorship will not keep out the ugly things from being reported. That would not be fair to the million viewers of this site! Thank you.

PS: Had it not been for this site, my dealership would not have known so soon about the Farmtrac mess back in January 2008!

 

[jim_n_nh]

Update,

In the past two hours I have spoken to the head of service and the head of marketing for Kioti. There is alot going on behind the scenes.
One fact that I will reveal is it is Kioti's claim to have not be the ones requesting the removal of my threads, in addition they are in favor of having them reappear. If they follow up with the administrator it would speak highly of them. That could change understandable, but since Feb 2008 I have not heard from them, now two phonecalls in one day?

Wouldn't it be nice if both sides could end up being happy?

Jim

 

[SESS]

That is the importance of this thread-to hear ALL sides! Thanks for the updates.

 

[wallace]

 

[Mark_G]

Its not the censorship I disdain so much as the blatant favoritism... Rick Wallace got popcorn and I didn't!

 

[Dodgeram]

Its not the censorship I disdain so much as the blatant favoritism... Rick Wallace got popcorn and I didn't!

He brought his own, but I'll betch'a he didn't bring enough for all of us
Tom

 

[kentrodngun]

He brought his own, but I'll betch'a he didn't bring enough for all of us
Tom

I don't know about that - seems that bag never empties

 

[SnowRidge]

What! No beer? I want refreshment with my entertainment.

 

[jim_n_nh]

According to the administrator dealers complained about the postings. Kioti CFO has now been informed of my issues!

Jim

 

[Sandlot]

Can't wait to see how this plays out! Burrrrrrp!

 

[rimshot]

According to the administrator dealers complained about the postings. Kioti CFO has now been informed of my issues!

Jim

=======================
Hi Jim,

I have followed your plight with sympathy. I don't recall every detail but thought you should have had some attention from your dealer and even Kioti. I recently had a mechanical issue develop on my CK20S. Unlike the lack of attention you have reported, Kioti and my dealer both responded in a professional way supplying warranty parts and labor. The tractor was fixed pronto and it did not cost me a dime. It seems brand new again. The dealer even provided many extra services and I know it cost him right out of his own pocket.

I have learned tons reading and appreciate the storys from our collective library of tractor tales. I think that you have made your point but now I'm hearing something different. You seem to be saying to Kioti, do it this way or I shall report this thing on TBN. Negotiating requires one to be willing to give a little and take a little. It seems to me this approach is closer to Black Mail than negotiating. Do you think a person can say more than is necessary?

I still hope you can get your issue fixed but from my position I see your case as alienating the very people who can help you. I think it was Shakespear that penned, "He doth protest too much."

Just the way I see it and maybe I'm wrong.

rimshot

 

[jim_n_nh]

Let me update on my expenses, I just got my latest bill. $1369.15 because a bolt wasn't secured properly on the enternals. This was either done at the factory or when the tractor was in for warranty repairs under the previous owner.

My math figures out to be $65 per hour for just repairs(I have put 45 hour on this machine)
The tractor has 192 hours on it total. It has not been abused.

I am trying to be polite here as promised but maybe I should paint it yelloow

If you owned it how would you feel? Want to buy it? $20,000 and I will break even, all service bulletins have been performed.


Jim

 

[rvaitor]

In my opinion, what gets people upset is that there is no clear policy of whats permissible and whats not. I had noticed your post about the financial state of Kioti/Daedong which is a very good discussion to be having right now given the state of the economy, but apparently that's not allowed... however, a 150 page thread about the failure of FarmTrac is totally okay and has been going on for 8-9 months. This comes off looking like censorship and pandering to potential advertisers in what should be a public forum.

TBN should have a set of rules in place that should be enforced by the moderators. Those rules should be gospel, regardless of who is making the request for an exception.

I agree, there has been some inconsistent pulling of threads. I responded to one of the threads that was apparently objectionable to someone with some positive experiences I had with my dealer and Kioti. Others probably, had they been given the chance, would have done likewise. I think if all you are going to allow is positive comments then you dilute the benefit of the discussion. That is disappointing.

 

[JoelD]

Agree, there should be some clearly stated rules with regards to posts.

In general, I find it a little scary if a post is pulled.

I understand profanity, attacks that could be perceived as personally harrasing and the like.

And as I've posted in the past, definately not a fan of Jim's (probably more a matter of I own the same machine and hate to see it bashed, than a more rational reason).

But in the end, scary to see rational, non-abusive, non-threatening, non-harrassing posts getting pulled.

There is value to the free speach thing.

For the record, still lovin my Kioti.

Joel

 

[Willl]

How dare you question the Great Oz.

 

[RickB]

How dare you question the Great Oz.

Selective censorship on this forum is disturbing. However, this is a privately owned and operated website. As such, the owners (and their administrators & moderators) have unlimited authority to delete any postings or parts of postings. If you want freedom of speech, create a website and speak your mind. If you don't like the water, get out of the pond.

 

[LBrown59]

That is the importance of this thread-to hear ALL sides! Thanks for the updates.

When you start censoring members that's when the board starts heading for it's own down fall .The most important asset the board has is it's members not it's advertisers. Without members there can be no board.If it weren't for the members there is no audience for the sponsors products. If people can't feel free to speak their minds here there is really no purpose for them to be on here.Don't create an environment where folks feel like they are walking on egg shells if they post something or the board will start going down the tubes.L . B .

 

[LBrown59]

1*I personally believe that people should be able to state their views-if someone has had an experience or been involved in an eqiupment "flaw", they should be able to post their comments, concerns and views for everyone to be made aware of. I think the manufactures of the different brands that are mentioned on this site, should also heed the words of the viewers because if a viewer is pointing out a problem that is better for the manufacturer in the long run. Same goes for a dealer that has had a negative experience with a customer. People are human, everyone has an opinion, and anything man made is not perfect! Things break!

2*I just hope that censorship will not keep out the ugly things from being reported. That would not be fair to the million viewers of this site! Thank you.

1*I'd go you one farther on this:
If folks can't do that freely on a board it ain't much of a board.

2*Censorship is not good for the members and what's not good for members is bad for both the Board and the sponsers.