Mulching/clearing opinions

[ScottOkla]

We have 150 acres of bottomland that we have been gradually clearing for the last 7 years, but we are only able to do a few acres per year. This is primarily made up of pecan trees and the occasional oak or ash, but which was not mowed in 20 to 30 years so there are many various seedlings and other brush that have taken over between and under the old, mature trees. It is almost entirely think brush now.

I would like to get this clearing done in a faster manner than I have been able to do thus far. Specifically, I have two areas of about 10-20 acres each that would be valuable to me cleared off. By "cleared off" I mean I want everything gone except the mature trees. Almost all of the trees to be removed are less than 12" in diameter. Most less than that. The rest is vines and underbrush.

Large equipment would not be able to do this work most of the year because of the damage caused in the soft soil. Usually July-October is the only time the ground will support large equipment without compaction. For this reason and and a few others, I have wondered whether mulching would be feasible. Since I want the mature trees left and everything else removed, it seems mulching might be more economical and beneficial to the soil than other options. I have read a lot of the the threads on this topic and it has peaked my interest.

I would appreciate opinions on how costly this would be to mulch and the best overall approach to take for this situation. I currently spend 20 to 30 days per winter running the chainsaws thinning the mature trees in the 80 acres we have cleared and also clearing new areas with our tree shear and grapple. I just don't want to take another 7 or 8 years to finish the remaining work. My father and uncles are really getting up there in age and I want them to see the place like it was when they were kids. It is a tough choice to make when weighing quicker/costlier vs. slower/cheaper.

I would also appreciate it if anyone has any experience with mulching contractors close to NE Oklahoma that they would share.

 

[Highbeam]

Either way you do it, you'll need to make a large commitment to keeping this large acreage under control otherwise you'll end up right back where you started. As I have been "parking out" my land I have noticed that keeping it clear uses up a significant amount of resources. It is much easier to maintain completely cleared land.

 

[J_J]

I think I would invest in something like this, or hire someone to mulch out the forest.

 

[ScottOkla]

We manage and harvest the pecans and the main reason I want the area cleared faster is to start bringing it into production sooner -thus the desire to keep the mature trees and thin them over time to keep the productive ones.

I have only been living back here for 7 years and devote what free time I have to improving the place -just not enough free time to get it done quickly with the tools I have. Like you said, trying to manage the cleared area and also clear significant new area is a lot more work than people think, especially old pecan trees since they drop many large and small branches on a regular basis and the fertile bottomland encourages really fast weed and seedling growth. It's tempting to lease it out for cattle, but I'm just not interested in that right now.

I just need more information on mulching costs and time for this area.

 

[cbturf]

The price will depend on the density of the material you want thinned. If I am cutting blackberries with only a few trees then the per acre price is pretty low. If, on the other hand, the cleared material is pretty thick and big then, well I think you get it. If the job is worth my while I will go anywhere to work. You can even check a few of my references on this site.

 

[JMER]

Scott, I am in the process of having the exact same thing (including the vines!) done but on a smaller scale. Mulching is definitely the way to go in your case I think. CBTurf (posted above) is doing the work for me and it has been quality so far. I can recommend him without hesitation. My biggest concern was compaction of our soil and disturbing the root systems of the larger trees I was keeping on our acreage. The machine cb uses left no changes in the contour of the land nor did it disturb or break up the root systems of trees I was keeping. Good way to go. He's a good one to bounce specific questions off of as well... i bombarded him with questions before we got started on my acreage.

 

[ScottOkla]

One big issue for me is the market value of the land "as is" vs the value of the land cleared of the undergrowth. While I would love to have this specific piece of land cleared, it's hard to spend as much doing it as it would cost to buy a good, cleared piece nearby.

The market value of my specific piece is about $700 per acre as is (recreational), but would be about $1100-1200 cleared (agricultural). Now to me it would be worth more since I have an emotional attachment to it, but I have to keep things in perspective since I (nor my wife) don't want to be loosing money, or should I say a lot more money.


In general there are about an average of 20 to 30 trees to keep per acre, with small hardwood trees or shrubs (about 4 to 8 inches in diameter) every 5 feet or so apart in between the mature trees. There is a lot of variation, but this is a typical scenario. It cannot be attacked efficiently with a brush hog or with the tree shear due to the number and density of the seedlings, but I still work at it every weekend. I will try to get some pictures over this weekend.

I appreciate the responses, especially you guys like cbturf. I have read a lot of the threads about this topic on this board, and I have learned a lot about the mulching machines. I know its is hard to give accurate opinions based on just my descriptions or even pictures, but I appreciate you guys telling me what you think. I have not located anyone in my area to give me mulching estimates, although there are lots of dozer people that are finding themselves with some extra time lately.

 

[RobJ]

Either way you do it, you'll need to make a large commitment to keeping this large acreage under control otherwise you'll end up right back where you started. As I have been "parking out" my land I have noticed that keeping it clear uses up a significant amount of resources. It is much easier to maintain completely cleared land.

Isn't this the truth, it doesn't take to long to "lose it" and have to start from scratch again.

People buy a dozer to use, then sell, you can do the same with a mulcher. They are fun to watch!

 

[cbturf]

Selective clearing with a dozer is a VERY bad option if you are planning on keeping any crop trees. When you scrape the small trees you will disturb the feeder roots of the keeper trees. Since you will be relying on these keeper trees for some income, keeping them as healthy as possible is very important. Not to mention that when you have a mulcher clear for you he will be incorporating all of the biomass back into your soil feeding the crop trees. The layer of mulch on the soil will also help retain moisture for the crop trees. When a mulcher is done you will be able to maintain the property with your tractor and bushhog. I think you are getting the point. When you want a selective treatment there is only one way to go.

 

[RobJ]

Selective clearing with a dozer is a VERY bad option if you are planning on keeping any crop trees. When you scrape the small trees you will disturb the feeder roots of the keeper trees. Since you will be relying on these keeper trees for some income, keeping them as healthy as possible is very important. Not to mention that when you have a mulcher clear for you he will be incorporating all of the biomass back into your soil feeding the crop trees. The layer of mulch on the soil will also help retain moisture for the crop trees. When a mulcher is done you will be able to maintain the property with your tractor and bushhog. I think you are getting the point. When you want a selective treatment there is only one way to go.

HAve you done this before?

 

[cbturf]

This is all that I do. I am a full time land clearing contractor.

 

[john_bud]

cbturf,

He can BUY the land for 700-1000 per acre. What approximate cost would it be to mulch an acre of the type he described?

jb

 

[cbturf]

jb that is a tough question because of all the variables. Based on my interpretation of his description and what I think he wants it will run from $400-1000/acre. I would not guarantee anything until I have a chance to see the job.

 

[john_bud]

OK, that's reasonable. I just had a JD 700J dozer out and he cleared about 3.5 acres and did 5-700 yards of road work and that was $2100. That is right about in the center of your guess. My land is similar with 12-15 years since it was logged flat by the prior owner. Soft stumps and small trees.

Oddly enough, there are very very few people doing mulching around here. The ones that tried it have left town for greener pastures. I wanted to have my land mulched for the reasons you list, but couldn't find anyone. Dozer guys on the other hand are easy to find. I'm guessing it has to do with the amount of granite rocks that are in the ground.

jb

 

[cbturf]

To be perfectly honest I should be more expensive than a guy on a dozer. Since mulching is so much better than using a dozer it should be more expensive. When your dozer operator left you still had a lot of work to do, when us mulchers leave you are done.

 

[john_bud]

To be perfectly honest I should be more expensive than a guy on a dozer. Since mulching is so much better than using a dozer it should be more expensive. When your dozer operator left you still had a lot of work to do, when us mulchers leave you are done.

Yes, that's the basis of "value pricing". Higher customer value should result in a higher product cost. That is weighed against the cost of the closest competitive technology, product or service. Convincing the customer to pay the higher price for your part of the project (and have a lower overall cost) is the job of salemanship.


jb

 

[finspop]

Very intrigued by this post. I'm trying to clear about 5-acres of woodland in VT for pasture. I've done about an acre thus far, cutting trees with chainsaw and having an excavator stump. It was too time consuming and too expensive.

I had been thinking I'd buy a backhoe or excavator and do my own stumping (posted earlier today asking advice between the two), but this whole chipping/mulching thing sounds really good. The trees are mostly poplar 8-12", with some hardwood and a few much larger fir/spruce/hemlock. I'd pull out all the firewood and sawlogs first.

Since I'm looking for pasture, not hayfield, couldn't I just get the trees sheared at ground level and then have the chips spread to build organic matter? Avoid stumping and the loss of topsoil. Let the chips rot for a while, then seed it down? Or?

Cbturf, you seem very knowledgeable on this; I would very much appreciate your insight (or anyone else's).

Thanks!

 

[RobJ]

Yes, that's the basis of "value pricing". Higher customer value should result in a higher product cost. That is weighed against the cost of the closest competitive technology, product or service. Convincing the customer to pay the higher price for your part of the project (and have a lower overall cost) is the job of salemanship.

jb

If you can sell it and people will buy...by all means! But my thinking is it should be cheaper, less costs up front (purchasing equipment new), less fuel cost to operate, and you can haul a decent size skid steer on a bumper pull trailer. It's also a lot faster.

If you mulch, do you still have the stumps that will pop back up? I talking aobut those 1-1.5" junk. I guess a dozer with a rake might remove more of this. You can see in the pic where I went over some small saplings with the RC. they have begun to strout up again. The stumps are only a couple inches up and a little rough on the finish mower. You can see a few in the front of the pic and some in the back.

 

[cbturf]

I am pretty biased on the value of mulching over any other form of land clearing so guys with a dozer and an excavator may disagree with my opinion but we do live in America after all. When you have your land cleared with a mulcher you do not have to spread the mulch it is already done by the mulching process. Next you do not have to worry about erosion and losing your topsoil since the mulch bed holds the soil in place. When you try to re-establish your ground cover the mulch bed acts to retain moisture and moderates soil temperatures allowing you new cover to establish. The biomass will decompose quickly in a pasture adding organic matter to your soil.

The only added expense with mulching is soil testing and adding nitrogen since the decomposing wood will lower your N levels.

When I clear your land there are no stumps, I either grub them and grind them up too, or plane them off to gound level. After I have cleared any job you can drive a truck or tractor thorough there with no worries of puncturing your tires or getting hung up on stumps and such. If I just level the stumps you want to keep your ground engaging implements out for a few years though!

Also if you want 100% mortality on the stump you can put a coating of Roundup and veggie oil or deisel fuel and the roots will die right a way. If you kep the top growth mowed of they will die in a couple of years as well.

 

[cbturf]

If you can sell it and people will buy...by all means! But my thinking is it should be cheaper, less costs up front (purchasing equipment new), less fuel cost to operate, and you can haul a decent size skid steer on a bumper pull trailer. It's also a lot faster.

If you mulch, do you still have the stumps that will pop back up? I talking aobut those 1-1.5" junk. I guess a dozer with a rake might remove more of this. You can see in the pic where I went over some small saplings with the RC. they have begun to strout up again. The stumps are only a couple inches up and a little rough on the finish mower. You can see a few in the front of the pic and some in the back.

I am afraid that you are making a few incorrect assumptions. I run a dedicated purpose built mulcher that cost over $155k. In heavy material it will guzzle a 52 gallon load of fuel in 7 hours. And I would not reccomend pulling my 15,300 lb machine on a bumper pull trailer.