Who makes the BEST garden tractor?

[Gatorboy]

I think you should look at this from the reverse angle. What Garden Tractors should you NOT buy, and then what is left over are tractors to consider. To get your NOT TO BUY list going, here are a few:

- Sears Craftsman
- MTD
- Murray

 

[ducati996]

Bob,

Sounds like you have yourself painted into a corner and without a compromise you may never find the machine that does all you need...my thoughts would be a sub-cut or cut
which offers the 4wd, mower attachments, and 3 pt cross attachment compatibility you desire...
You have a Cub already, they offer a new 5000 series which is a sub-cut unit in 4wd, 3 pt , and available in diesel...its very competitively priced as well....under 10k with mower & 4 wd & diesel, 3pt...

good luck either way

Duc

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Duc . . . painted myself into a corner? No way! Culled the herd, and limited the choices down to a few. . . definately. But that is the whole point, to eliminate the weak choices.

I would say that the Sub-CUTS are eliminated for the simple reason that they are too much tractor. They absolutely serve their purpose and are absolutely more versatile than Lawn & Garden tractors, but the point of this search is to find the best GARDEN class tractor which is a class of tractor that is LESS capable, LESS versitile than the Sub-CUTS. They are basically large lawn mowers, and used almost always as lawn mowers, and occasionally as snow blowers. Sometimes owners of garden tractors actually use them for something else, but probably the most common non-mowing chore is to pull a garden cart. We are not talking about a real tractor, we are talking about a lawn mower on steroids. Implements are not really an issue, most garden tractors NEVER see an implement.

All that said, mowing quality is critical. As mowing quality is critical, then all aspects of turf care become a primary concern. 4 wheel steering is much softer on the turf, articulated units that offer 4 wheel drive by default offer something akin to 4 wheel steering so they are favored for their light touch on turf while still gripping the ground with 4w drive to let them handle hills and rough terrain. Mowing speed becomes a premium issue if the arguement is carried to its logical conclusion, and that would favor a highly manuverable tractor, again that favors the articulated units.

I will say that I am driving the Ventrac tractors Tuesday morning and even without driving one, I am guessing that those tractors will be the best overall units based on their specs, manuverability, traction, mowing ability, etc. The Steiners are also a top choice, but Ventrac seems to be an "improved" version of the Steiner design by the same people who designed the Steiners. I guess I'll find out for sure Tuesday if Ventracs are better than Steiners. My first choice SO FAR (and based on NO ACTUAL testing) is the Ventrac 3000, the Ventrac 4100 and Steiner 415 would be the next logical choices. A Power Trac 180 would also rate very highly, but is less capable on steeper hills and carries a smaller finish mower deck which are 2 big strikes against the unit. A Power Trac 422 gives more capabilities but probably compares more to a SUB-CUT and still is not as good a lawn mower as the Steiners or Ventracs.

As much as I like my Cub Cadet, it is NOT as good as the Steiners I've already seen. The 5000 series Cubs are too large to qualify.

Bear in mind that my quest is a COST IS NO CONCERN quest to find the BEST. A $800 Sears discount model will mow the lawn and a $10,000 Steiner will mow the lawn. The premium units will mow a bigger lawn, faster, and on terrain the discount tractors simply cannot traverse.

 

[MossRoad]

I think Bob has come to the conclusion that lots of machines are good for lots of things, but none are best at everything. Each has its own strong and weak points. He wants the best machine for a particular need. I like his thought process on this quest. Can't wait for the demo rides and reports /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Libertine]

Bob_Skurka:

Was just offering you another option. From your comments sounds like you've never spent much time actually using a two wheel tractor. Without the sulky, my gravelies would mow under bushes nicely, and, with clutchless shuttle shift, were easy to reverse. With the sulky the whole outfit (the tractor with duals, a 40" finish mower, sulky and myself) would move over 1/2 ton up slopes where I would have been reluctant to take my larger tractor-a NH TC40. When on flat areas I put it in high gear (had 8spds 4 forward, 4 reverse) and moved along just fine. My old 6.6 hp Gravely will do anything the units you are looking at will do, just a little slower. Given enough torque, good gearing, etc. 6.6 hp is plenty.

Also, although your experiences may have been different, I have found that flexibility is useful as I may buy a tool for one job and then find, sometimes years later, it is handy for something else I never thought of when I bought it. Last year I was using my larger tractor (with BH & loader) to fill in some ground. When it came time to till in seed & moss I used the Gravely since it was so much easier to manuever. When pushing snow near the house the Gravely was actually easier to use than the TC40 which is better for larger, open areas.

Anyway, I was just offering another option, which, from what you said, might prove out as a more flexible option in the long run-certainly less expensive and lower running costs, less depreciation and much easier maintenance. A larger mower will certainly get the job done faster if you're in a big hurry.

Take care,

JEH

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Libertine . . . I think I may have sounded a bit harsh in my earlier reply to you and did not mean to. Several years ago I looked at the BCS units and was very very impressed. My quest for the BEST garden tractor is, however, just that. A quest for a top quality tractor that will accomplish the task at hand while providing a quality cut quickly and easily. The 2 wheel units simply are not up to the task because the mower decks are smaller by 12" to 20" and that adds up to making a lot of extra row cuts, especially on several acers of lawn.

Also, the Ventrac test scheduled for this morning was rescheduled to Wednesday morning due to a broken trailer hitch.

So we will see how those machines stack up.

So far, of the stuff I've seen, Steiner rates #1 for quality of cut, versitility, manuverability, turf care, and ability to handle difficult terrain. Some of the operator controls could be a bit more use friendly.

 

[ducati996]

Bob,

I think the Sub cut's are just the right size tractor...they mow excelent, offer 3 pt capability, FEL or BH options. But you dont have to buy the attachments if you dont need them, but by default the machine can handle it...
I think they are more versitile and since you have used a Cub 1862 for so long, I think the 5000 is a little bigger, but not as large as you think gets you close to your goal...but offers all the added capabilities without the cost....
Hopefully you have seen one up close....

Either way, Good luck in the quest for holy grail !!

Duc

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Duc . . . I am on a first name basis with the owner of the local Cub/Kubota store and actually went over and played with several of the brand new Cub CUTs that are on his lot. I like them. But they are not garden tractors. They are TOO MUCH tractor for a unit that is basically going to be a mowing machine.

And again I am trying to be pretty objective, I layed out the qualifications several times in this forum and the CUTs and even the SUB-CUTs are not ideal replacements for a smaller garden tractor because of several reasons. Take mowing next to intensive planting beds and small trees for example. Any tractor that has a ROPS unit will have the ROPS hit the lower branches of a dwarf fruit tree or small ornamental tree. I have several dozen small flowering trees around my daughter's playhouse that the current Cub Cadet BARELY fits under if I lay over on my side so my body misses the branches. Even SUB-CUTs have a ROPS system that reaches up 60" to 70" above the ground and many of the small, but mature trees (minimum age 10 years old) have branches that start out about 48" above the ground.

SUB-CUTs and CUTS also do not offer the soft turf approach of 4 wheel steering. They almost all are 4wheel drive, which I think is a quality that is a useful bonus. But as we are talking about mowing the lawn, the tractor must also be very soft on the turf and nothing beats 4 wheel steering or articulation for that. Combine the two features and you have a top of the class unit.

Also, CUTs are not stable enough on slopes. SUB-CUTS are much lower to the ground that CUTS, but still not as low to the ground as garden size tractors for their center of gravity, but even if one did have a lower center of gravity, it would still have the branch mangling ROPS bar as outlined above, and it would NOT have the 4 wheel steering combined with 4 wheel drive capabilities (unless I missed one brand out there that does . . . but as I've found out about more brands of garden tractors than I ever heard of before in my quest, I think that possibility is fairly small).

Also, the point about the having a 3pt hitch really is not a benefit on a garden tractor because garden tractors really are not used by MOST people for anything other than lawn mowing, snowblowing & pulling a small cart. I know that whatever I buy will not be using my implements, and again, trying to be totally objective, 85% of garden tractors are only used for mowing. Of the remaining 15%, snow blowing is the next most often used implement.

If it makes you feel any better about my search, I am NOT planning on getting rid of my Cub!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif It will be placed in semi-retirement at my office/warehouse to tend to the 6 acres I have there. Some grass cutting and snowblowing the freight docks.

 

[ducati996]

Hey Bob,

Think of me of the little pain in the arse kid in class who always has a last remark or quip to say- but I'm not little /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

and the word of the day is : foldable ROPS /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You obviously know what you want and are looking for. Honestly, i have learned from your posts here...you are testing machines that I will probably never see in my life time. They are not available in my area thats for sure...

I'm glad the Cub will be held in high regards...I felt the same way when the old 125 was relived of its duty by the 3204...
And then the JD 4100 showed up at my door, and now nobody is speaking to each other... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Duc

 

[Bob_Skurka]

The concept of a foldable ROPS solving my search is simply flawed for this application as well becuase it simply does not address so many other issues like the turning radius, the soft turf issues, etc.

As for being the pain in the . . . well for me this whole quest is a journey. I have discovered brands I never knew existed becuase of this very thread. I am test driving TYPES of machines that I never realized anyone ever conceptualized, let alone built. And I have learned a whole lot . . . simply because I started out looking at getting a new Cub, or NH or Kubota traditional garden tractor and simply becuase people have been good enough to point out brands and choices which is just what you are doing.

Personally, I think that this thread has been pretty darn educational for me, and I hope it has enlightened several others that there are choices out there other than Cub, Deere, Kubota, etc . . .