What creates "bad diesel" fuel ?

[sunandsand]

Gotta neighbor who politicizes EVERYTHING. He was going to buy an 8,000 gallon tank and fill it up with diesel so he'd never run out. The fact that he'll never use that much fuel in his entire life is unimportant - he'll HAVE it. He has one Kubota mid-size tractor and an older GM diesel truck (which he doesn't drive much).

Anyway, it is all the fault of (fill in the politician to blame today) that the price of diesel has gone up to where he can't afford to fill that tank, which he hasn't bought anyway, because of them etc. etc. etc. (Covid has nothing to do with it, OPEC has nothing to do with it, refinery fires have nothing to do with it, hurricanes in the Gulf have nothing to do with it . . . you get the idea.)

Actually, all these evil forces arrayed against HIM PERSONALLY (to hear it told) may have done him a favor. If he fills that tank and it leaks or grows algae or whatever, now he'll have 8,000 gallons of essentially unusable fuel unless he treats it with gallons and gallons of algae killing chemistry and fixes the leaks - if he can find them.

He'll also be talking to the EPA and the local environmental regulators who are not a very pleasant or understanding crowd (ask me how I know this) about his brand new contaminated property which is now eligible to be an EPA superfund site. Note that the EPA only designates, they aren't paying for the cleanup (although some federal funds - i.e. our tax dollars - are sometimes available).

The water table is pretty high here, too, so he'd be contaminating multiple square miles of the aquifer as well - oh boy oh boy.

Environmental cleanups on this scale are astronomically expensive. When I was a mortgage broker, banks flatly refused to lend on gas stations because if the borrower defaulted, the owner (now the bank) has to pay for the cleanup. The fact that the bank didn't cause the leak is immaterial, the bank is the owner and the bank has to pay, period. (Not that I have a huge problem with that, but anyway . . . ) Small spills and small amounts of contaminated dirt can run up bills of over a quarter of a million dollars, which makes it pretty obvious why banks won't lend on gas stations. There are plenty of other borrowers out there who won't break the bank - no pun intended - if they default.

The contaminated dirt has to be dug up, trucked off to an EPA approved facility and incinerated. We're talking six or seven figures on small to medium size spills. Even on small spills or small leaky underground tanks, I have seen them require a power driven ventilation system running 24/7/365, and *somebody* has to pay the power company for the electricity - the EPA isn't real picky as to who.

Probably the best thing that could have happened to him was the increase in the price of fuel, it kept him from getting himself into some REALLY big time and expensive trouble.

He's a good guy, I'd rather hear him complain about his lost opportunity to stock up forever than listen to him wail about the EPA coming after him and fining him a bajillion dollars. ("Will Sir be paying with cash, check, or credit card?")

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Odd. Biodiesel is more expensive than petro diesel.

Them folks order 3,000 gallons at a time. Just like me, I don't care what fuel costs because I have to have it. I either charge more or make my coffee at home. Make up for it somewhere else.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

This topic baffles me. I too have a 50 gallon storage that I treat and filter before it goes in the tractor, so does my family farm, but know and have heard, (I'm sure you all have too) many more stories of diesels, tractors, scrapers, dozers etc., that have been parked for years, even decades and they run fine on very, very old fuel. So is it that those old engines will run on anything?? Why don't those injectors and pumps fail??? The old diesel doesn't contaminate like modern day??

Because old engines have 8 to 1200 psi injectors. New ones with computers run 24,000 or so. Fuel must be clean. Can't you see how tractor mileage has increased so much in the last few years? I didn't think so.

 

[ruffdog]

Because old engines have 8 to 1200 psi injectors. New ones with computers run 24,000 or so. Fuel must be clean. Can't you see how tractor mileage has increased so much in the last few years? I didn't think so.

....and the filters they use now are finer than they use to be so they plug up quicker.

 

[blizzardslayer]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

About 16 years ago I experienced a sudden drop in rpm while blowing snow, almost to the point of stalling. It recovered immediately after I took my foot off the accelerator. Since the temperature was in the teens, I chalked it up to fuel gelling. I changed the fuel filter and started running an anti-gel additive in case that was the problem. The problem occurred rarely over the next 13 years. It always happened, in retrospect, early in the winter after the tractor had been sitting for most of the summer. It also would happen when temperatures were not low enough to cause gelling so I began to rule out fuel gelling. However, changing the fuel filter resolved the issue for a while. I tried to research it online but would always ask questions in the context of fuel gelling so never arrived at a solution. After having it happen one morning a few years ago, I went to get another filter at Napa. I ran into Doug Cole, the previous owner of Napa in Mount Shasta, Ca and told him about the problem I was having. Without hesitation, he told me I had microbial contamination in my diesel. To put it simply, it creates a sludge that will plug fuel filters. Information on diesel microbial contamination is exhaustive online and is worth understanding. I now run a diesel biocide and have not had any problems since. Low sulfur diesel is prone to contamination. Be aware that if you do have contamination in your tank, you could experience a plugged filter after treating with biocide, however, I did not. Diesel biocide is produced by a few companies. Power Service makes a product called Bio-Kleen which is available at both Napa and O’Reillys in Mount Shasta. Other measures that are important are: keeping your fuel tank full to reduce condensation, and using a water removal additive. I have run across two tractor owners recently who have had similar issues and I’m assuming we’re not the only ones. Hope this helps

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

....and the filters they use now are finer than they use to be so they plug up quicker.

Most exactly right. So if they sell the feel good tingly feeling bio fuel and dont tell you.... Then you start having all the problems you can't understand.

 

[ruffdog]

When the forest cutting crew showed up mid winter to cut/chip the trees, a cold spell hit and froze up the equipment. The first 500hp chipper had fuel gelling and the only thing the guys said was "**** biodiesel". After changing filters more than once and dumping 911 into it, they shipped up another 60 ton chipper. When it is warm you can run BD but not 10-15 below zero.

 

[ovrszd]

Because old engines have 8 to 1200 psi injectors. New ones with computers run 24,000 or so. Fuel must be clean. Can't you see how tractor mileage has increased so much in the last few years? I didn't think so.

My two 40 year old Fords will burn just about anything. They smoke like a freight train and love fuel.

 

[ruffdog]

My two 40 year old Fords will burn just about anything. They smoke like a freight train and love fuel.

Yeah, same with my dad's David Bradley tractor. I think it would run on oil straight from my mom's fryer.

 

[billypumper]

When my small lawn tractor (X758) sits in the winter time I always put Sea Foam in the tank seems to always take care of any problems you seem to have, use it in my 2002 F-250 Power stroke too.