UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to cold start

   / UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to cold start #1  

Bart1080

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Messages
5
Tractor
UTB 445
Every time I start this tractor from COLD, its extremely difficult...cranks over before it finally kicks in to almost flattening the battery. In fact generally I need to put the battery on the charger and swap it for the spare just been charged each morning. It was built in the 80's and is Diesel

I've actually stuffed the starter soleniod (and will fix/replace) and now need to start with a screw driver across the starter motor.

Once started, its literally runs all day with no problems. runs and sounds great. Can stop it and come back in an hour and will start reasonably fine (5 to 10 sec crank over)

I've pulled out the injectors and had them pressure tested along with the spray pattern and they work perfectly.
I prime the pump before starting...if the morning isnt too cold it seems to sometimes help. ie: I press the priming lever 30 odd times or more
I turn the starter switch 3/4 to warm the heater plug
It appears to have plenty of compression (mechanic dropped in to fix some other minor stuff
The tractor is visually in really good original condition and although the hour meter was broken at 600 hours which I've now replaced, I doubt by the looks of things its done any more then 2,000 hours as everything is really tight and "not" worn. It sat in a shed for 10 years as the owner had the same starting issues including PTO fingers broken, handbrake issues, alternator issues.

The only thing left to fix is the starting issue and split the tractor open to replace the PTO fingers....inspect the clutch while I'm there. The PTO works with the tractor speed...just not the PTO option for engine speed.

I'm lost as to how to get this thing to start really easy.

Could it be the heater plug, timing, pump primer.....Really lost at this stage. Can anyone offer any pointers???
 
   / UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to cold start #2  
That tractor should have a manifold heater (Thermostart). If it does not, you should add it. Did the mechanic perform a compression test?
 
   / UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to cold start
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Thanks Rick, it does have a Thermostart.
Any hints on how to test if its working?
"Google" tells me I can either pull it out and test on the work bench or take a closer look at the manifold to see if there is a cover i can remove to see it working with fuel dripping over it.
Does that sound right?

Compression test - no he hasn't but based on his observations of the day, he didn't think this was an issue. I guess I could pull the injectors out again to test the compression myself.
 
   / UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to cold start #4  
An inexpensive non contact infrared thermometer would quickly tell you if the thermostart is working. Usually they can be heard to ignite as well. Guessing at compression is not accurate at any skill level.
 
   / UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to cold start
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Rightio, I'd googled the Thermostart...found one of your post responses and a few Utube video's.

Removed the Air Intake hose so I could see the Thermostart,
Turned on the start lever to the preheat (Thermostart) and some times it went on (coils glowed red hot) and others it didn't.
Was expecting diesel to be dripping over the hot coil by none did. In hindsight, I didnt pump the primer...so maybe the cause of no diesel.
Due to the inconsistansy of the glow plug working, had to be either the starter switch, glow plug (...Thermostart) or wired connections.

Removed the lead off the Thermo and successfully tested for correct vaults. Wiggled the start lever to see if I could make the test inconsistent...but all good
put the lead back on and the Thermo was inconsistent
Lead push on connection wasn't the tightest, so a small squeeze with pliers fixed that and now really tight to get on.
Anyway, gave it a crack to start and bugger me, it started with a couple of turns after warming the Thermo for a minute.
Not sure if it was a fluke as it was a warm day....so will try early in the morning.

With any luck, the loose connection might be all it is....but we shall see.
 
   / UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to cold start #6  
Bart,
We had a similar issue with my Štore 402 (FIAT 420) tractor, which has Fiat rebranded UTB engine.
Thermostart helped a little, but it can't solve a problem.
Because of that, we decide to do engine overhaul 7y ago (@7000hrs), and then we found reason why it was started hardly. Problem are leaking intake valves.
So, for permanent solution, remove head and set properly valves seats with grinding compound. It's better to buy "thick" valves, and redo seats (as we did).
Now mine starts without heater up to -10...12C

Second problem is "slow" running, romanian made, starter. Find a good one Bosch or Iskra (Letrika) or Marelli starter motor, and you will see a difference.
My tractor has 95Ah battery, whether Long has 140Ah, so it should start easier (which is not a case with slow starter).
I don't know are parts available there in US, but here in Europe is not a problem.

If you like to do engine overhaul, I have lot of photos, some data etc. ;)
 
   / UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to cold start
  • Thread Starter
#7  
OK, its had a bit of work done since last time. Been in the mechanic for a while, split the tractor in 2 and replaced the clutch plate, fingers, thrust bearing.
Located a charging problem that turned out to be a loose wire and a blown fuse from the alternator.
Starter motor was stop starting and located another loose wire which fixed the problem
Located a hand brake rod off another Fiat and now have a hand brake.
Checked and tested the injectors which were within spec.

The only thing left is still the starting issue from cold. Once started, you can stop and start all day without issues.
Compression is good. The mechanic looked at the fuel pump, we replaced the glow plug and on testing yesterday, still fails to throw a flame.
The glow plug gets red hot really fast but there is just no fuel being released through the glow plug.
We bleed the line but still struggling to get any fuel to be released. If there is a dribble of fuel, of course, it will flame up for a second.

As a test, a split second squirt of a "hard start" spray in the air intake and it instantly starts every time from dead cold.
Just struggling to find info on how the fuel is released into the glow plug.

Found this on another forum "It is a small heater coil with a diesel reservoir about the size of a 35mm film case screwed to the inlet manifold. The reservoir fills from the leak-off pipes & when the coil gets current it heats up to red hot, opens a valve which drops the diesel down onto the coil & heats up the manifold. "

Struggling to work out how this reservoir gets filled or how to test its filling.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:
 
Top