Trailer brakes and how to make them work right

[JimR]

I'll try to make this short and sweet. My double axle boat trailer hauls a 5000 pound boat. It has disc brakes on it. Many of the roads in New England have steep grades. When going down a hill the trailer pushes against my truck causing the brakes to activate and smokes them up. I have 600 miles on the last set of brakes and they are shot. The calipers are fine. Short of converting over to electric brakes or an electric master cyclinder, has anyone found a cure to fix this problem? I emailed Tie Down and got a BS responce about how you have to be like a trailer truck and keep going to stop the pushing. If I did that on one particular hill I'd be doing 60 in a 30 mph zone. My thought is to make up a setup with heavy springs to keep the trailer from sliding forward too easily on the tongue. Tie Down claims all hydraulic trailer brakes are like this. Well all I can say is if all trailer brakes work like this then someone ought to fix this problem. I do realize that these brakes are inertia brakes. I never had this problem with my 3500 pound smaller boat that I used to own with the same brake system. I guess pushing the weight up to 3 tons makes a big difference.

 

[wdchyd]

Jim,

Is it possible the front brake actuator is not compatible with your disc brakes??

Seems they sell different actuators that are for drum brakes and disc brakes ...don't know the diff.....maybe a flow restrictor problem?? allowing too much pressure and flow too fast??

that said, I have surge brakes also and like them compared to elec brakes on a boat trailer(though I have them on a flat-bed and like them too)

 

[JimR]

The guy from Tie Down mentioned that my master cylinder may be faulty. It was brand new when I installed these brakes. I took the check valve out of the master cylinder. This removes the residual pressure that is used on drum brakes. Many others have done the same with no issues. The diameter of the master cylinder piston is identical for both setups from what the dealer told me. He was the one that said to remove the check valve inside the master cylinder. The dealer did not have a disc brake master cylinder so I bought the drum master cylinder. They are the same minus the check valve. My 3500 boat and trailer had the identical setup that I have on this trailer. I removed the check valve from that cylinder also. I could also put the drum brakes back on. But they are high maintenance when you dunk them in salt water. What really irks the **** out of me is that you cannot buy the rubber boots and caliper O-rings seperately.

 

[Diamondpilot]

It's a master cylinder issue. I work on these things all the time. Do you have the brakes on just one axle or both? If just one axle add them to the other, it will take the work load down some. Good news is 1992 cavalier front brake pads fit it and are $10 at auto zone. As long as you are not warping your rotors just go trucking, it's cheap and easy maintiance. I have smoked way more drum brakes than disc.

Chris

 

[JimR]

I'm running the discs on one axle only. They are rated for 6000 pounds. I had two dealers tell me that was all I needed. I have to ask why it is a master cylinder issue when there is no residual pressure and the cylinders are the same except for the check valve? I can understand what you are talking about by adding the extra brakes. The fluid will now need to supply two more calipers. I still see an issue when going downhill with all that weight pushing against my truck. The brakes are still going to apply when I do not want them to.

The brake pads on mine are not the same as a Cavalier. The outer one is held on by two screws. Northern Tool has mine for $35.00 shipped.

 

[wdchyd]

Is it possible the trailer tongue is not level when travelling (pitching downhill) resulting in the actuator always pushing in to engage brakes??

Mine kinda resets foward when I accelerate, I can feel the actuator extend out

 

[Diamondpilot]

I'm running the discs on one axle only. They are rated for 6000 pounds. I had two dealers tell me that was all I needed. I have to ask why it is a master cylinder issue when there is no residual pressure and the cylinders are the same except for the check valve? I can understand what you are talking about by adding the extra brakes. The fluid will now need to supply two more calipers. I still see an issue when going downhill with all that weight pushing against my truck. The brakes are still going to apply when I do not want them to.

The brake pads on mine are not the same as a Cavalier. The outer one is held on by two screws. Northern Tool has mine for $35.00 shipped.

Thats odd you have different pad. I have worked on dozens of these trailers with Tie Down brakes and never seen Screw On Pads. All that I have dealt with say to use 92 Cavalier pads.

To be honest though I do not like Tie Down. I have them on my Tandem trailers one axle but I had the same issue and put Kodiak on the other. No problem mixing and matching. My other trailer has Kodiak on all 3 axles.

Is the master cylinder and coupler properly rated? Is the trailer overloaded? My 12K trailer (2 6K axles) came with Tie Down disc brakes on one axle only. It was going trough pads quickly and eating up the stuff on my truck quickly also. It has a 8,600# boat on it so the total weigh is right around 10K. I added the Kodiak brakes to the second axle and its a world of difference.

Chris

 

[tlbuser]

I still would foresee a downhill issue also. The only 2 differences I knew of,(disc vs. drum) reverse solenoid and higher pressure (disc is higher). You may want to look at adding an electro/hydraulic actuator instead. Not a cheap alternative by any means, but ........

 

[JimR]

I've had my tongue all apart to grease it all up including the roller. maybe that is the problem. I made it too easy to puch forward on. It does sit level and has no wear to it.

Is it possible the trailer tongue is not level when travelling (pitching downhill) resulting in the actuator always pushing in to engage brakes??

Mine kinda resets foward when I accelerate, I can feel the actuator extend out

 

[JimR]

The trailer is not overloaded. I have no problem stopping it or pulling it with my Ford F250 SD 5.4 Triton. I think the trailer is rated for 7200 pounds. The boat weights 5000 pounds loaded. The brakes are the E coated brake calipers. The inner disc brake pad slides. The outer one is fastened by two screws to the outside of the caliper. The coupling is rated fine for ths setup also. I've heard others complain about Tie Down brakes too.

Thats odd you have different pad. I have worked on dozens of these trailers with Tie Down brakes and never seen Screw On Pads. All that I have dealt with say to use 92 Cavalier pads.

To be honest though I do not like Tie Down. I have them on my Tandem trailers one axle but I had the same issue and put Kodiak on the other. No problem mixing and matching. My other trailer has Kodiak on all 3 axles.
Is the master cylinder and coupler properly rated? Is the trailer overloaded? My 12K trailer (2 6K axles) came with Tie Down disc brakes on one axle only. It was going trough pads quickly and eating up the stuff on my truck quickly also. It has a 8,600# boat on it so the total weigh is right around 10K. I added the Kodiak brakes to the second axle and its a world of difference.

Chris