"Trail" driveway: How do I improve it?

[beppington]

Below is a pic of the old ~600' "trail" driveway on the property I plan to build a house on.

Much of the lot is just below the flood plain, & this trail is just a whisper above it (~1 ft), so there are 2 spots that become muddy during even a light rain. My limited experience so far is that the 2 mud areas aren't extreme, meaning I don't think a car would drop a foot down into it, but then I don't know that for sure either. (sorry no pics of the muddy areas, but right now they're dry as a bone anyway)

When it's dry, it's perfectly fine to drive on as-is. But it'll need to be able to reliably allow concrete trucks (& others) to get in & out, even when wet.

My question: Should I dig out the existing material ... either the muddy/ clay part, or the entire length of the trail ... in order to fill it back in with driveway material, or should I just spread the new driveway material right on top of the existing trail, so that it's raised as much as possible above the flood plain?

BTW, I was planning on using a driveway material the distributor calls "scrap rock": It's a mixture of the leftover scrap amounts of all their different normal materials that they combine & sell. It's got big stuff, medium stuff & fines, & has limerock, granite, gravel, etc. My friend used it on his driveway, & man it locks together almost as well as pavement. And he didn't even roll/ compact it; just box bladed it smooth & started driving on it.

I'll love to hear any other suggestions, too ... Thanks!

 

[merrickvilleguy]

I know for our road (just over a mile of it) I mix the riff raff and gravel in with the dirt. Low spots will collect water so I'm trying to keep it above grade a bit

 

[Western]

With that rock type your considering, do you think a small drain pipe or 2 at the lowest problem areas would help with heavier moisture?? That's what I'd be looking at as my 1st "shot over the bow" may be the simplest thing, maybe it would allow some type of "control" where the water and low spots are. just thinking out load.

 

[beppington]

Nobody else? Dan, I was hoping for opinions since the material will be delivered soon.

 

[dmccarty]

The mistake I made when building our driveway was trying to smooth it down. Kinda hard to make something smooth with root and rocks all through the soil. I quickly figure out that smoothing was a loosing proposition but I still had box bladed a shallow trench.

I used geotextile fabric which was one reason I was trying to smooth out the driveway "path." We ended up only putting down 3-4 inches of ABC gravel. We had planned to add another 3-4 inches but the fabric worked so well the gravel money got spent else where. We need to put down more gravel to get the driveway above grade. As it is heavy rain will put water on the driveway for a short distance which does move some gravel. Not bad but a few more inches of ABC would solve the problem.

The problem is not too bad because it has been like this for a good eight or so years.

I would put down fabric and build up from grade.

Later,
Dan

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Another vote for the fabric, you use a lot less gravel and I even tried it on some swampy areas and although the ground still wiggles a bit it holds my tractor.
Rick

 

[beppington]

Do you have a source for the geotextile fabric? Should I be able to find it locally?

 

[Egon]

I even tried it on some swampy areas and although the ground still wiggles a bit it holds my tractor.

Those are the types of conditions the fabric is meant for.

 

[EddieWalker]

What type of soil do you have now? Clay or sand are non organic and do not need to be removed. In fact, removing clay will cause water to settle in the road and create a nightmare of a mess. The only reason you dig out and remove any soil to build a road is that it is organic topsoil that will decay over time. When anything decays, it settles and you end up with low spots and pot holes.

The first thing that isn't clear is how wide the trail is. Adding material to build up the road might sufficate some of the roots. I don't know our trees, but you might kill them anyway, even if you want to keep them. It's always easier and cheaper to take them out before adding any sort of material next to them.

you need a minimum of ten feet of width for your road. Anything less and the edges become soft. 12 is better, but it's also 20% more money!!!!!

What way does the water flow when it rains? What about when it rains REALLY HARD? By building up the road and creating a crown, you are also building a dam that will stop the water and change where it might have been going. If the slope is fine on either side and it will just go away on it's own, then you are golden. If it wants to cross your road, you need to figure out how big of a culvert that you need. The easiest and best way to do this is to go see what others have and if they can handle your rains. The only rains that matter are the big ones that do all the damage. You don't same any money by putting in a 12 inch culvert if it can't handle the water and your entire road washes out.

Rule of thumb for culverts is that you need half as much material above the culvert as the thickness of the culvert. If the land is totaly flat, and you only need a 12 inch culvert, then you will need 18 inches of material before and after that culvert. Plust enough material to get to that point and back down again. Cement trucks are heavy, and if you cut corners, you will be liable for the damage to the truck, the lost load of concrete and the tow to get it out. Plus your road will be destroyed.

I'm not a huge fan of fabric for roads. It's used when other things are not done properly. If there is a wet area, then the drainage needs to be fixed. Relying on fabric doesn't solve the drainage issue. If you have a wet area, dig it out, replace it with dry material, compact it, and build it up so that water goes AWAY from that wet area. It's very simple, but it takes a lot of material and time to make it right.

Eddie

 

[dmccarty]

Do you have a source for the geotextile fabric? Should I be able to find it locally?

A company selling culverts should have it.

I am a big fan of fabric. It saved us a fortune in gravel. Not to mention the time it would take to put down more gravel. I do need more gravel to get the driveway slightly above grade. Since I get water on one section of the driveway I have to touch it up with the box blade every 3-4 years. The rest of the driveway is just fine and will never have to be maintained. If I would spend the $2,000 to add gravel I would not have to use the box blade. $2,000 vs a few minutes with the box blade....

Our soil is heavy clay which is why there are quite a few brick and pottery companies in my area. My neighbors did not use fabric so they have to constantly regrade their driveways. I finally had time on Saturday to move some trees I got up months ago. Unfortunately we had 2 inches of rain on Thursday and Friday. When I had to move off the gravel I just made a mess in the mud. Our soil is weird when wet. Drive on it once and it is ok. Drive on it a second time it turns to jello. The third time you sink the tires. Imagine what that would be like as your driveway.

Without fabric I would have had to redo the driveway multiple times. We had multiple dump, logging, brick, and cement trucks on our driveway. The driveway only had 2-4 inches of ABC over fabric but it held up perfectly.

The only problem I have with fabric is that you want it installed as smoothly as possible. You do not want it stick up on a rock, twig, or root which is easier said that done. If you do have to grade the driveway you have to make sure you do not catch the fabric that is sticking up. Flip side is you should never have to grade again. I only have that one stretch that needs to be graded because the top of the driveway is at grade level.

My supplier had two fabric types both 12 feet wide an in rolls 360 feet long. At the time it was priced a bit under a dollar a linear foot. There was a mesh and woven type. I used mesh but I cannot remember why. I could cut it with a utility knife but it would quickly dull the blades.

Later,
Dan