Tilt Meter

Phred · Oct 24, 2002

Guys,

Well I finally broke down and added a tilt meter. Actually I added two; one for side to side and one for front to back tilt. Should have done so long ago since much of my property is very steep.

I turns out the slopes that made me nervous (across slope) were only 10 degrees. As a result, I tended to be very conservative since the idea of flipping over one of these expensive machines is not very attractive to say the least.

The slopes tend to create run off that will create small "ditches". Hide one of these ditches/ruts under 6 ft tall brush and you have a problem.
The tilt meter and low gear makes a big difference. I highly recommend these meters.

Fred

wichiwichi · Oct 25, 2002

Why? Common sense will tell more than any meter or guage on the market. Seems to me like another gimic or add on that some just "have to have". Just my opinion.

RBManufacturing · Oct 25, 2002

Hi Guys,
Rick at R&B here. Just a little feed back on the tiltmeters.
A highway dept. we sell to recently had two roll-overs in two
days. They buy my meters exclusively. However, they just
leased new tractors and did not have meters mounted on
them yet. According to a district purchasing agent for the
highway dept., a directive was sent to all districts telling
all districts that ALL tractors must have a tiltmeter and
where to get them. R&B was the only approved supplier.
The highway dept. has been using my meters for 2 years.
According to the purchasing agent, the directive sent by the
safety engineer for the dept. advised that roll-overs had
reduced by over 70 percent since adding tiltmeters.

A large farm bureau insurance company placed their second
order last Monday. 100 more tiltmeters. They bought 100
last spring. They sell them to their clients for cost. Seems
roll-overs have gone down drastically.

A manufacturer of slope mowers just placed their third order
in the last 12 months. At first, they offered tiltmeters as an
option. No roll-overs by users. They have decided to put
a tiltmeter on ALL their mowers. No added cost to the buyers.

Seems like this GIMMICK is saving lives. Go figure.

A tiltmeter is not for everyone. They will not prevent a roll-over. A speedometer will not prevent speeding. Both are
guages for safe operation. My wife drives so slow she does
not need a speedometer. Some tractors are never used
on slopes. No need for a tiltmeter.

By the way, we sell to numerous highway depts. They come
back every year and buy more. Seems the GIMMICK works
well for them. Rick

Anonymous Poster · Oct 25, 2002

Hi guys,

The first impression I got from reading the first post in this thread yesterday, was that the gentleman [sorry, can't read your name as I write this], now that he got his tilt meter, might actually get himself in trouble, because it made him feel comfortable in a situation where he used to feel uncomfortable, and that as a result he might drive faster across that slope, and hit a rut/bump, and experience undesired results.

Rick seems to have become a bid defensive in his post...and does site some good uses for his tilt meters. I am sure they have prevented accidents...but my guess is that they are most useful when the operator of the equipment is entering "unknown" territory. If I were constantly running across new slopes, or old ones that I have not seen for a long time, I would without question want a tilt meter! Who would not? Could only help, and never hurt.

A new tractor/mower, in the hands of a new operator, especially one with little/no experience is an accident waiting to happen. All operators don't have built-in pucker factors! Having something with a red line that flags DANGER can certainly help save an injury or worse. Tell the newbie that if he gets into the red, he may flip over, and you have done him a great service and perhaps saved him a trip to the hospital [or funeral home] that could have been caused by ignorance/lack of experience.

Those new tractors that rolled might have rolled even with the tilt meters installed, if they were less stable by design than the ones the operators had previously been using...but probably not if there was a rule that the tractor absolutely should not be used on a slope exceeding "x" degrees. AND if that rule was followed by the operators...

A max degree rule in the work environment might give the operator a measured reason NOT to cut an area where in the past he would have been expected to. A reason to "just say no" that his supervison would have to listen to. An objective reason not to do it...that was reasonable.

To me, the value of the tilt meter increases greatly when the unknown is approached, and lessens when the tractor is operated on know areas where it [and the operator] has been many times. I am not sure how valuable one would be to me, since I have limited property [< 4 acres] and few unknowns...

Still...it would be nice to know how far the tractor was leaning...

But in my case, I keep getting an image in my mind of me sitting there puckering...at say 13 degrees...with the tilt meter edging me on...not to worry until I go those 2 more degrees into the red zone.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I still feel like I would like to have one...not because I really need it, but because I would like to have something to calibrate my pucker factor with.

Bottom line is that tiltmeters seem to have more or less usefulness depending on the application.

Worst case, if one had the money to through at it, what's wrong with another gaget? Even if you only have a flat acre! Never know when you might want to do someone a favor...whose land is all slopes!

Personally...I doubt I will buy one any time soon...but ya' never know /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif.

AND...I know this has all been said before! /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

But so has:

One can NEVER be too safe!

Bill in Pgh, PA

MikePA · Oct 25, 2002

wichiwichi - Seems to me like another gimic...

macher - Rick seems to have become a bid defensive in his post...

From <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dictionary.com>Dictionary.com</A>
gim·mick n. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.

I'd get a bit defensive, too. I'm sure that wasn't wichiwichi's intent, but if it was my company's product, one that I believed in and knew saved lives, I react the same way.

The TiltMeter would not only benefit excursions into unknown territory but also benefit inexperienced operators. If common sense were all that's needed, we'd never read about experienced farmers 'buying the farm' when their tractor rolls over on them.

If I were a supervisor of a grass cutting crew, I would much rather tell them, "If you see this gauge exceed xx degrees, get off the slope." versus "If you feel uncomfortable, get off the slope." However, if I were a wrongful death lawyer, I'd love to hear the second phrase in a deposition.

Whether or not a tractor is going to roll over has nothing to do with how someone feels, or what their CSPPF (Common Sense Personal Pucker Factor) is. For this illustration, assume that a slope of 20 degrees causes a roll over. Phred and Ethel approach the same slope. Phred was at 10 degrees when his CSPPF kicked in. Ethel's CSPPF kicks in at 19 degrees. Who's got the bigger margin for error? Who could have the downslope front wheel hit a ground hog hole and have a better chance of surviving with nothing more than a scare?

Yes, I have a TiltMeter. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Anonymous Poster · Oct 25, 2002

Hi MikePA...this is BIllPA...maybe we are neighbors /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I think I was making the same point as you were...not sure if you read it that way...

Bll in Pgh, PA...

wichiwichi · Oct 25, 2002

The intent was not to downgrade or downplay the product. I just see no use for them. I believe that someone could get in more trouble by watching the tilt meter than concentrating on the job at hand. It's like the old saying goes "you cannot protect somebody from themselves". No matter how many safety shields, warning labels, or safety devices you put on a piece of equipment there are people in this world who will manage to hurt themselves or others. Wether it's using it for other than its intended uses, "seeing what it can do", not paying attention or just plain carelessness. Growing up in the sw corner of WI, if we went by the tilt meter, half or more of our fields could not have been farmed. No matter what devices are installed, paying attention and common sense go a long way. Once again just my thoughts and opinion.

MikePA · Oct 25, 2002

Bill, yep I think we're on the same page! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif We're not quite neighbors, but I do spend a lot of time in Pgh, usually, at least once per month.

Phred · Oct 25, 2002

First I should have said that I have no affiliation with any company that makes these things. Just your average Joe that owns a tractor.

Second I have about 100 hours on my current machine and have used all sorts of other tractors, bobcats, miniexcavators, etc... The fact is that the feel of a slope is a function of the machine. On my current unit the operator sits up quite high and seems a lot more tipy than a compact tractor. However, they are alll designed for a 20 degree slope limit.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

Why? Common sense will tell more than any meter or gauge on the market. Seems to me like another gimic or add on that some just "have to have". Just my opinion.

<hr></blockquote>

Nope. I don't believe that you can tell how much of a slope you are on by feel. This is a tool and low cost at that. So why would you oppose something that can't hurt and costs on the order of 0.1% of your tractor investment? In addition, as Rick says it simply provides info. In fact it seems to me that on some slopes I had underestimated the slope and on others had over estimated.

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

The first impression I got from reading the first post in this thread yesterday, was that the gentleman [sorry, can't read your name as I write this], now that he got his tilt meter, might actually get himself in trouble, because it made him feel comfortable in a situation where he used to feel uncomfortable, and that as a result he might drive faster across that slope, and hit a rut/bump, and experience undesired results.

<hr></blockquote>

I don’t think so. In fact I think most guys tend to get sloppy with time. The more time you spend on slopes the more comfortable you get with it and the more you push the edge. So the meter allows you to establish a quantitative level that will get you in to trouble. This level is independent of how you feel on the slope. Have you seen the post about the guy that loads the backhoe on the train car? Maybe after enough times through that process it might even start to make some sense. Not for me but maybe for some guys./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

No matter how many safety shields, warning labels, or safety devices you put on a piece of equipment there are people in this world who will manage to hurt themselves or others.

<hr></blockquote>

I also hate the lawyers’ labels. You know the ones: don’t stick your foot under the mower, don’t stick your hand in the chipper, the coffee we serve is hot, etc…This stuff is all common sense.

The tilt meter, IMHO does not fall into that category. You can’t tell what is safe by feel.

Fred

JackIL · Oct 25, 2002

Fred,
A point of clarification about the statement that equipment is designed for a 20 degree side slope. To determine if the tractor passes the requirements of the ANSI sideslope standard, it is placed sideways on a tilt table. The tractor has no implements attached or mounted on it and no operator. Then the table is s..l..o..w..l..y raised and the table angle at which an up-hill wheel looses contact is noted. If this angle is less than the required number X in the standard, it passes the test.

This obviously doesn't account for dynamic effects such as a wheel dropping into a small hole or riding up over a small bump. It doesn't account for any implement or attachment or operator effects. All of the foregoing would tend to reduce the real stability limit. Thus it should not be assumed that when operating in the real world, the tractor would always be stable on a side slope of up to a limit of X degrees.

Jack