Quarter Inching Valve on FEL?

[npalen]

Was reading a bunch of old threads on Kubota's inching valve on the 3PH. It occurs to me that this is simply a mechanical method of controlled "bumping" any hydraulic valve to get a small amount of cylinder movement.

With this in mind, it would seem that such a system would be useful for the lift function on a front end loader (FEL). Many times a person wants to raise or lower the bucket a very small amount and very slowly. This is particularly true when a heavy load is being moved into position when using the FEL as a "crane".

I've even resorted to bracing my arm against something or even grabbing the valve handle with both hands so that it could be moved ever so slightly. Have you ever just "tapped" an adjustment of any kind to get a small movement of the device or function being controlled?

So then the thought process leads to a "flipover device" on the loader valve handle that is adjustable just like the quarter inching valve but could be flipped out of the way when not needed.
Thoughts?

 

[bigdeano]

That should work if your valve has good feathering ability. I have an adjustable priority flow divider in my system that can slow things down to any desired speed, but it only works for raising, not lowering.

 

[goeduck]

That should work if your valve has good feathering ability. I have an adjustable priority flow divider in my system that can slow things down to any desired speed, but it only works for raising, not lowering.

Lowering is where I always need it. I seldom want to lower quickly and wish I had a way to restrict the flow.

 

[npalen]

Gravity, as we are all aware, is rearing its ugly head when we start talking about controlling the speed of descent of an FEL and controlling the descent of a 3PH under load is really no different, I guess. The "Quarter Inching" 3PH on the Kubota, from what I've read, is basically an adjustable method of mechanically detenting or stopping the throw of the valve handle.

The flow control "under the seat" of most any 3PH is an adjustable method of controlling the flow of fluid (metering out) coming out of the 3PH single acting cylinder. The same basic method of controlling the drop (or descent) rate of an FEL would be beneficial in overcoming the gravity of a heavy load in the FEL bucket. A pressure compensated flow control valve would be of value on a 3PH to control, at the same speed, a 1000 pound box blade or a 50 pound drawbar. The "under the seat" flow control is a cheaper method of controlling the descent speed but requires adjustment for the different in 3PH weight.

So, what I'm saying is that an adjustable mechanical detent on the loader lift valve handle should provide similar control to an FEL as it does on a 3PH but may require the addition of an adjustable flow control. (A pilot operated check valve or counterbalance valve could also control the descent speed of the loader by requiring pump pressure to force the load down rather than letting it drop.) The load checks on some FEL valves are a somewhat similar method of momentarily controlling heavy bucket loads.

I believe that someone mentioned, in one of the threads, that 3PH attachments of varying weight may require position adjustment of the "quarter inch" detents. The speed at which the handle is moved and released also comes into play when heavy 3PH loads are involved so then it becomes a combination of "throw" and "speed".

I'm just thinking out loud here, guys, so feedback is needed.

 

[BrokenTrack]

I can see where inching would be good on a Front End Loader, but equally I can see where there is a safety issue at play too, especially when we are talking heavy loads.

I love big round bales with my front end loader all the time, and while I keep the load low, I am always at the ready to drop the bale should I bounce over an unseen bump or something. In an emergency situation would a person be able to throw the lever into standard mode and lower the load to the ground to prevent upset? It seems doubtful.

I can see both sides of this: where it would work well, yet in the exact same instance, could be a safety issue too.

...

If I seem like I am on the fence on this one, I am! I have a log loader that has a safety valve in the cylinders so that if the tractor or self-contained engine stall, the load can not come down and strike the operator. This gives it an automatic creeping valve, and because of its dexterity, is what I typically use for "crane" type loads. So I can definitely understand how the creeping valve would be an asset with precise movements. BUT I can also lower loads to the ground quickly in an emergency too.

 

[jeff9366]

Would this have any application?

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The Long Comfort Ride is designed to reduce the up and down jolting motion of your loader when riding over uneven surfaces. Two nitrogen charged accumulators are connected to the lift cylinders of your loader which helps dampen the ride. This also helps to reduce the stress imposed on your tractor from the loader. The kit includes two pre charged accumulators, mounting bracket, ball valve, adaptors, and hose. The accumulators are pre charged with different pressures to help give a smoother ride when the bucket is either empty or loaded. Opening the ball valve engages the Comfort Ride and when the ball valve is disengaged the loader returns to the normal operation. There are two size systems available. The smaller one is for sub compact tractors up to 60 hp tractors. The larger one is for tractors from 60 to 125 hp.
​
KEY BENEFITS:
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Two nitrogen charged accumulators are included. One for lighter loads and the other for heavier loads.
Helps dampen the up and down jolting motion of your loader.
Kit includes two Accumulators, Ball Valve, Bracket, Hose, Fittings, and hardward.
By reducing the jolting action, the stress imposed on your tractor from your loader is reduced.
Ball Valve included so that the system can be engaged or disengaged.
CR10 for tractors up to 60 hp.
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[Gem99ultra]

Gravity, as we are all aware, is rearing its ugly head when we start talking about controlling the speed of descent of an FEL and controlling the descent of a 3PH under load is really no different, I guess. The "Quarter Inching" 3PH on the Kubota, from what I've read, is basically an adjustable method of mechanically detenting or stopping the throw of the valve handle.

The flow control "under the seat" of most any 3PH is an adjustable method of controlling the flow of fluid (metering out) coming out of the 3PH single acting cylinder. The same basic method of controlling the drop (or descent) rate of an FEL would be beneficial in overcoming the gravity of a heavy load in the FEL bucket. A pressure compensated flow control valve would be of value on a 3PH to control, at the same speed, a 1000 pound box blade or a 50 pound drawbar. The "under the seat" flow control is a cheaper method of controlling the descent speed but requires adjustment for the different in 3PH weight.

So, what I'm saying is that an adjustable mechanical detent on the loader lift valve handle should provide similar control to an FEL as it does on a 3PH but may require the addition of an adjustable flow control. (A pilot operated check valve or counterbalance valve could also control the descent speed of the loader by requiring pump pressure to force the load down rather than letting it drop.) The load checks on some FEL valves are a somewhat similar method of momentarily controlling heavy bucket loads.

I believe that someone mentioned, in one of the threads, that 3PH attachments of varying weight may require position adjustment of the "quarter inch" detents. The speed at which the handle is moved and released also comes into play when heavy 3PH loads are involved so then it becomes a combination of "throw" and "speed".

I'm just thinking out loud here, guys, so feedback is needed.

I sure agree, some device to slow the FEL down is needed. Often, especially with a heavy load, any movement of the control level will result in a very hard, i.e. fast, drop on the FEL. Many times I need to simply drop it down 1 inch or so, but end up having to try 4 - 5 times to hit the exact height I wanted. The 'pinch valve' idea seems to me to be the simplest solution.

 

[npalen]

but equally I can see where there is a safety issue at play too

You raise a good point. I recall having to drop aload quickly to avoid upset due to a side slope and luckily I was ready for it.
I would think that from a safety standpoint the default would have to be normal range of valve motion where the detented portion would have to purposely selected.

Two nitrogen charged accumulators are connected to the lift cylinders of your loader

First I've seen where two accumulators are used with one for empty bucket and the other for loaded bucket. Sure would take some shock load off of the loader and tractor.

 

[ovrszd]

In a panic or haste I might occasionally start descent a bit to fast. But otherwise I see no need. I can control my ascent or descent on my M9540 easily with the joystick. I never need to rest my arm on anything to control that.

I wonder if it's affected by size of tractor and FEL? I don't recall having a problem with my previous L4400 either so that might not have anything to do with it. I've not ran any other small FEL setups. My old Ford TLB is also very easy to control.

 

[npalen]

I think the quality of the loader valves has some effect on control-ability of the loader. I know that some valve spools have the lands notched to give more control when lowering the load.