New L5240 HST and lovely wife

[BBull]

After days of lurking around, seeking a decent used model (everyone must be keeping them -- except folks on ebay -- which I wouldn't touch), and dragging my wife to the K. dealership to "look" she gave me a great 50th bday present and said, "get the tractor." So tomorow I take delivery of a new 5240 hst, w/ the 854 FEL (with grapple fork). First real tractor and I'm totally jacked and also intimidated.

For those interested in comparing, I'm paying $26,900 plus another $1400 for the grapple. Took the 36 month 0% so nothing off for cash.

At some point I might be interested (be able to afford) a logging winch for it, but for the moment I'd like to know (simple question) how people "pull" a cable or loggin chain attached to a downed tree? IS there a tow bar you attach to the links? Or?

Thanks for all the weeks of your input I've been reading. I have much to learn.

(Thanks also to great wife without whom I'd still be window shopping and drooling!)

BBull

 

[lug nut]

Congrats on the birthday and the present.

You'll want to use the drawbar for any type of pulling.

 

[canoetrpr]

WOW!. That's an awesome setup.

 

[Toolguy]

For pulling logs, any tractor with a 3 pt hitch (3PTH) works well with a drawbar attached to the lower links. They can be bought at any TSC type store for under $25. Put a clevis in the middle hole and attach the chain there. Put the other end around the log and get as close to the log as you can. The closer the better. Ideally, when you raise the 3PTH arms the log will lift up off of the ground. This does two things. It transfers weight from the log to the rear wheels of the tractor for better traction and it keeps the end of the log from digging in the dirt. If you can't get close enough to the log initially to lift it, at least by raising the 3PTH arms you will be pulling up on the log which always helps. Once you drag the log out to where you have some room then you can hook it short and lift it. Good luck. Sounds like you have a nice tractor coming and a great wife.

I made a receiver hitch attachment for my drawbar. I also welded a chain link on the bottom of it so I could attach a grab hook. The grab hook makes a good place to pull from with a chain and it also allows me to hook the chain shorter with out needing to wrap the chain around the drawbar to use up the excess.

 

[BBull]

Thank you Toolguy! Great description and pics to explain to me what type of setup I need to do. I'll get the drawbar, then work my way up from there.

So much to learn . . . thanks for teaching.

BBull

 

[john_bud]

For pulling heavy loads you want to use the draw bar. Not the 3pt. Toolguy's pictures show the real drawbar with the trailer ball on it behind the attachment on the 3pt. You can buy a chain hook that uses a pin to attach to the draw bar. Chain it close to the end of the log and then to the drawbar. You want the log just behind the rear tires, but not so close that the log rolls into the tire.

For light loads the method Toolguy outlined is fine. The line between light and heavy blurs at times. You know you crossed it when the lower arms bend, the tractor flips up (or God forbid, over) or the spreader bar bends into a "U".


There are log cones you can buy that allow the butt end of the log to glide over the ground and bounce off of stumps and rocks. If you lift up a 20' x 20+" oak log with the 3pt and snag a stump, the odds are good you will flip the tractor over. It's harder to do with it attached to the draw bar as the draw bar is below the rear axle center line.

Safest way is to use a logging winch.

jb

 

[n8wrl]

A "log cone" would be the way to go. The rule of thumb for pulling is to attach BELOW the axle - that's where the drawbar is. That way you won't develop a force to pull the tractor over backward.

It's pretty easy to visualize the geometry - if you pull from above the axle, you pull the front-end of the tractor off the ground. If the log suddenly hits something it could pull the tractor completely over. By pulling from below the axle it tends to pull the front-end DOWN instead. The log can still hit something, but you'll likely lose traction as opposed to flip.

-Brian

 

[Toolguy]

I will be the first to admit that anything is possible. That said, I do not see anything at all unsafe about pulling even the heaviest loads from the lower 3PTH arms. After all, they are attached to the tractor beneath the axle. Even if they are fully raised, if the front end of the tractor comes up the arms go down and will never be high enough for the tractor to flip over. The unsafe point to pull from is the top link. That is a definite no, no and certain to cause a backflip. Never, ever pull from the top link alone. On the other hand, my setup, like so many others, is perfectly safe to pull from as hard as you want. Example: Ford tractors were the first to use a 3PTH. These tractors came from the factory with a drawbar and stabilizer bars that utilized the 3PTH arms as the main attachment point for pull type implements. The stabilizer arms attached to the top link and attached to the drawbar pins, one on each side, at the lower link ball ends. This triangle shape held the drawbar up and limited the side to side sway. The stablizer bars were adjustable to allow different drawbar heights. This was the standard drawbar on all Fords until the late '50s. Also, logging winches are attached to the 3PTH so don't worry, the 3PTH is plenty strong. As far as bending the 3PTH drawbar, you would have to seriously abuse a 50HP tractor to bend it as long as you use a clevis and pull against the wide side.

My preferred method of pulling logs with my setup is to have the end of the log under the drawbar as I am pulling it. That way it would be near impossible for the tractor to flip over as the log would hit the ground first and be under the drawbar preventing it from going down and the front end from coming up. This is the same effect as the lower plate on a logging winch. It also limits the amount that the front of the tractor can come up.

As far as hitting a stump or other obstruction while pulling a log, about the only thing that ever happens is the wheels spin and you stop moving forward. I typically pull logs at a pretty slow ground speed. You would have to be going very fast to have any worry of flipping the tractor if you just hit a stump. Besides, YOU are the driver, just watch where you are going and go around the stump instead of over it.

A log cone, or skid plate is a good idea. A lot cheaper than a winch, unless you plan on pulling a LOT of logs. For normal, occasional use though, the 3PTH drawbar works pretty good.

 

[R_Walter]

After days of lurking around, seeking a decent used model (everyone must be keeping them -- except folks on ebay -- which I wouldn't touch), and dragging my wife to the K. dealership to "look" she gave me a great 50th bday present and said, "get the tractor." So tomorow I take delivery of a new 5240 hst, w/ the 854 FEL (with grapple fork). First real tractor and I'm totally jacked and also intimidated.

For those interested in comparing, I'm paying $26,900 plus another $1400 for the grapple. Took the 36 month 0% so nothing off for cash.

At some point I might be interested (be able to afford) a logging winch for it, but for the moment I'd like to know (simple question) how people "pull" a cable or loggin chain attached to a downed tree? IS there a tow bar you attach to the links? Or?

Thanks for all the weeks of your input I've been reading. I have much to learn.

(Thanks also to great wife without whom I'd still be window shopping and drooling!)

BBull

Your price is apparently below invoice.

 

[Northland]

Nice rig! Not sure how far you need to take those trees but I have been doing a lot of logging on my land with my "little" B7800 and found that a logger's sling choker hooked to the standard drawbar is the way to go.

With your tractor and grapple you can carry the logs in sections to your landing. That's what I do with my B7800 w/grapple. Mind you I am bucking the maple trees into 5 to 6' lenghts.

see

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1187672#post1187672

you can find the cones at www.novajack.com

 

[Bird]

That said, I do not see anything at all unsafe about pulling even the heaviest loads from the lower 3PTH arms. After all, they are attached to the tractor beneath the axle. Even if they are fully raised, if the front end of the tractor comes up the arms go down and will never be high enough for the tractor to flip over.

I really don't like to contradict anyone, but you're mistaken. Fortunately, if doesn't happen really often, but it does and has happened. If you pull while attached above the rear axle, whether top link or lower links, the tractor can go over backwards.

 

[slowzuki]

The big problem with the 3pt is without down pressure, they will lift, maintaining a big moment or couple (the distance above the tires contact patch vertically).

The drawbar normally extends rearward enough that as the front end lifts, the distance to the contact patch gets smaller the higher the front end goes as the drawbar gets closer to the ground so it is much much harder for the tractor to go completely over.

Is is still possible via momentum that even if the drawbar hits the ground before the tip over point that there is enough momentum to flip. Very unlikely though.
Ken

I really don't like to contradict anyone, but you're mistaken. Fortunately, if doesn't happen really often, but it does and has happened. If you pull while attached above the rear axle, whether top link or lower links, the tractor can go over backwards.

 

[texasjohn]

Rollovers have been extensively discussed in this thread... check out the links there to videos, etc... very worth while if you haven't seen them before.

And, you DO have a very lovely wife!!!

 

[Toolguy]

I knew I would probably get slammed for my comments about pulling from the 3PTH arms. I will say it again, they CAN SAFELY be used for more than pulling a Boxblade, Plow or Rotary Cutter. I said before I believe that anything is possible so my advice to anyone interested is to do what you are comfortable with. If you think it may be unsafe, don't do it. If you choose to pull from the 3PTH arms be aware that as the arms are raised it will increase the leverage necessary to lift the front of the tractor. This can cause the front wheels to come up off of the ground which may or may not be a problem. On the other hand, it also transfers weight to the rear wheels for increased traction under slippery conditions. That is a major advantage that once understood can be of great value when using a tractor for what it is designed to do, pull things. My advice is always go slow enough so you are fully in command of the tractor and have complete control of it's movements. Hilly terrain is more dangerous than level ground. Be aware of everything around you at all times. As you learn the capabilities of your tractor you will get more out of it and you will be a better, safer operator as an added bonus. Good luck and be safe.

 

[Bird]

I agree with you now, Toolguy. You can certainly pull with the lower links of the 3-point, but if you raise them, they become very dangerous. I never forgot our little John Deere rearing up and nearly going over backwards with my dad when I was just a kid and that tractor didn't even have a 3-point hitch. Fortunately, he hit the clutch quickly enough that the front end fell back down.

And while I didn't see it, a neighbor told me about towing his homemade drag in the pasture to spread the cow manure a bit. He said he was pulling it with a chain attached to a drawbar in the 3-point hitch and he thought it would pull a little easier if you raised the 3-point a bit. He had an old Farmall gas powered tractor and said when it reared up, he fell off behind it and the only reason it didn't come on over onto him was that the engine died and the front end fell back down.

 

[Minicup28]

Since you are new to dragging and towing another basic safety rule is to never put a hitch ball on the 3pt hitch cross bar with out something to prevent it from rolling like Tool guy has done or there are slip on brackets that secure the cross bar to the lift arms.

 

[mjfox6]

Check out:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/100632-boom-pole-l2800.html

and

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/98162-logging-tongs.html

and

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/96760-tsc-boom-pole.html

 

[oldgeezer]

I grew up in the log woods & have done quite a bit of logging right around home with a regular farm type tractor. Here's how I rig up for it: Get a horizontal draw bar to go between 3pt hitch ends. If you hook directly to this drawbar & your log is very heavy, you will bend the bar. SO, cut a piece of HEAVY iron pie to just fit over the drawbar. This will not only serve for strength, but also as a roller when used as I describe next. Next, raise drawbar to maxumum height, now take a piece of chain & attach it with a clevis to the drawbar that runs underneath the back of tractor. Hang chain over drawbar with pipe so that it hangs over just a few inches. Get a pair if logging grabs (tongs), fasten them to the free end of the chain over drawbar (pipe) with a clevis. Pipe on drawbar should have some kind of collar welded around each end to keep your cable or chain from sliding off the end when you turn sharply. Back up to big end of log, drop your 3 pt. down, giving slack to chain with grabs, hook grabs in end of log, raise 3 pt up. This should pick up the end of the log. Now go with it. If you are afraid of maybe turning over if you hang something, just always keep your hand on the hitch control & should you hang anything, just drop the hitch which drops the log to the ground. Instead of a chain & grabs, you can also take a logging "Choker", fasten a choker eye to the under belly drawbar with a short piece of chain, hook the choker to the eye, run over the drawbar pipe & do the same as you would if using grabs. The log will pull much easier with a lot less strain on your tractor & equipment if the end of the log is clear of the ground. It is almost impossible to pull a very large log with the end sticking in the ground. If you have a fel on it will hold down the front end ( Which I have never reared up a front end with no weight on the front unless pulling hard up steep ground). Don't worry about pulling with the 3 point hitch. That's what it's for. Just hook a sub-soiler or 2 bottom breaking plow to one. It will pull it much harder than any log ever will if you get the end of the log clear of the ground, you'll find the log usually pulls very eaily. Actually, when done as described above, you are only lifting with the drawbar pipe combo. Actual pulling is applied to the underneath bar. A WORD OF CAUTION!!!!! IF USING GRABS, ALWAYS TAKE THEM OFF OR HANG THEM UP ON REAR OF TRACTOR WHEN NOT HOOKED TO A LOG. IF YOU DO NOT, SOONER OR LATER THEY WILL GET INTO REAR TIRE & RUIN IT EVERY TIME. Learned that long ago the hard way.
This has worked for me for years if done properly.
HAVE FUN.

 

[oldgeezer]

HST:

The Method I described in earlier reply (18) has always worked fine for me, But then I am a "Cobbler" of sorts. You might want to try my method if you are a "Cobbler" too, but then if you are not, you might want to check out the attachment on this site http://www.norwoodindustries.com/product.aspx?prodid=1044&cid=1009 . I have never seen a "Log Hog" up close & I'm not sure as to how it picks the log up but it looks as though it might work. I would do some inquiring before I bought one. It is available in 3 styles, Choker chain version & 2 sizes of grapple versions. It is also available from Northern Tool Company catalog which you can access on line & probably other sites as well. Maybe you could get some references from the company & check them out for satisfaction.
Again: Good Luck & be careful. Logging can hurt you.

 

[cmhyland]

I just skimmed these posts quickly so if someone has said this forgive me...

Do not skid logs with cable/wirerope Always use chain.

If the cable snaps it flies like a bullwhip. Cable Kills...

Because of the weight of it chain breaks and falls to the ground.

Be safe...

Regards,
Chris