Has anyone seen the D-Series?

[jmfox]

I hear there are many new changes:

-Spine frame
-side mounted engine
-20 gallon tank
-turbo only
-1 pump drive system (not dependent on engine rpm)
-continuous power to all wheels
-29" wheels (optional)
-6" longer
-1" narrower
-smart fan
-better radiator
-doubled capacity of oil cooler
-full independent suspension

 

[theoshin]

-Spine frame
what is a spine frame???

-1 pump drive system (not dependent on engine rpm)
there is only one hydrostatic pump currently. hydrostatic pumps are typically dependent on engine rpm (gear or belt driven)
the current pump is belt driven (not the best method but cheaper)

-continuous power to all wheels
not sure what this means???
currently there are two drive MOTORS, one for the front and one for the back differential controlled by the computer

-6" longer
i would not want this - it will lengthen the turning radius
it is long enough already. this would be a step back to me

-1" narrower
what advantage??? less stability

-full independent suspension
this could help. the front are a type of independent currently. rear independent would not change much at low speeds.

ts

 

[jmfox]

I repeated what I believed was the case in hopes of getting some explanations from those who had a look at the new series. The mission seemed to be a smoother ride without lost of function.

Here is a picture of a spine frame:

jmf

 

[theoshin]

i would be all in favor of a smoother ride. it is stiff.
tough to have a smooth ride when you are going to hang 1500lbs off the front though.

i look at spines all day long. this is a new one!

does not sound like they worked on the ergonomics in the cab.

ts

 

[UFM82]

theoshin- I'm curious as to why you stated that the belt-drive system for the pump was cheaper but not the best method. I can give you a 20 minute monologue on why the belt-driven pump is actually BETTER and CHEAPER than any other type of lay-out but I won't. Suffice it to say that it is the ideal way to run these machines. And yes, cost is reduced over the lifespan of the machine. If you ever lose a belt, you replace it. If you have an inline design with a coupler, you're pulling engines. That costs money.

 

[theoshin]

my family since 1982 has designed (with rexroth pumps) and built heavy concrete breakers. My father actually won the international award for road building engineering last year (the nobel prize of its type). he was also the lead consultant hired by Haliburton for a 850 million dollar road building job in Afghanistan (he flew back and forth for over a year). the hydrolic pressures used in the concrete breakers are much higher than a skid steer. we lift 12000 lbs up to 14 feet high thousands of times per day. the pumps and motors are put under high stress 8-12 hours per day non stop.

according to rexroth and our engineers (engineering degrees from the UW-Madison) a belt driven pump is not the best method. it is less precise among other reasons. a well designed system should not cause engine failures/issues. it is adequate, just not the best (per everyone who knows more about the issue here). I am not trying to start and arguement, just repeating what i have been taught. rexroth and our engineeres know more than I.

ts

 

[radman1]

I got to see the new Toolcat 5600 D series. The unit I saw was a prototype 3 point machine. I believe it maybe a while until a 3 point is marketable. I was asked to review the 3 point. Like jmfox said there are many changes. The loader is suppose to be the same. Only the 56 hp turbo will be offered. 20 gallon tank. Engine mounted on the side of the spine. The spine design looks great. All the lines and stuff run down the middle of the spine which is basically a metal rectangular tube/box. Larger tires are an option. The independant suspension looks great. Sort of like an ATV with independant suspension. I was told the ride is much smoother but I only drove it for several minutes in a lot. Reportedly, the ride is smooth enough that they will no longer have a suspension seat. The cab was very quiet. The all wheel steer is fantastic.
If they make a good 3 point system, it will be bye bye to my Jd 3720. The 3 point has some weaknesses but it is still a work in progress. The prototype does not currently have a cargo box. I think this is a huge omission and hopefully newer versions will have a box, even a small one. Current visibility with the 3 point is very good.

 

[theoshin]

for all those who are familiar to spine frame machines what advantages does it afford? why would bobcat change its design so radically? there must be mechanical/engineering advantages/disadvantages.

thx

 

[radman1]

for all those who are familiar to spine frame machines what advantages does it afford? why would bobcat change its design so radically? there must be mechanical/engineering advantages/disadvantages.

thx

My guess, is it allows them to use an independant suspension front and rear. Like a super duty Polaris ranger xp side by side. Owners have complained of a rough ride. I didn't see it that well because the unit had snow underneath but it was about 12x8" diameter and ran from axle to axle. I believe it also allows them a more protected conduit for hoses, controls ect.

 

[theoshin]

thx

rough ride would be my only real complaint with the current model, the rest are ergonomic issues

jmfox found out the unit would be 6 inches longer, i believe. any feel on if the turning radius was different??? i would be all for a smoother ride if i can still slide between buildings to get next to the garage doors - i go perpendicular to the double doors which works great. i don't need a longer unit.

i assume you are referring to a 3point hitch on previous post. 3pt attachments are less expensive; however, i wonder how well they would work with the size/capability of the current kubota engine. in my experiences, and correct me if i am incorrect, an attachment driven entirely by hydraulics with a 50hp engine (like the current model) vs off a 50hp tractor using a pto shaft has less power. i have used a jd tractor with similiar sized engine/hp as the tc turbo and it seems to put more work to the ground through it's pto vs the tc.

also with the change would the current model be abandoned/ceased production. i realize the parts would still be available but that is a pretty short shelf life for a unit as complicated/new as the tc. i always figured the higher price vs a skid steer was to pay for the engineering that was required to design the tc

interesting