foton 404 tractor fluids a d where to put them :)

[greg_g]

Yes, twin sump means two places to put two different types of lubricant (in this case gear oil and hydraulic fluid). Common (or single) sump tractors use UTF.

Clearly I cannot speak for what's printed in manuals for Australian FT404s. But here in North America we use gear oil in the gear boxes (front diff/mid-connect/tranny/rear diff) and hydraulic fluid for the hydraulics. UTF in America is generally a 20W equivalent. Our average climate is what typically makes UFT too thick for hydraulics and too thin for gears. Average American Foton owners will use 85W90 (about a 30W equivalent) in the gear boxes and AW32 or ISO32 (about a 10W equivalent) in the hydraulic sump. Extreme northerners may elect thinner, extreme southerners may elect thicker. When it comes to power steering, it's personal preference. A standalone PS pump may have an internal bypass, which complicates the fluid selection. I had to go all the way to 50W in mine - to prevent the pump from overheating in the dead of summer.

//greg//

 

[zonta223]

Yes, twin sump means two places to put two different types of lubricant (in this case gear oil and hydraulic fluid). Common (or single) sump tractors use UTF.

Clearly I cannot speak for what's printed in manuals for Australian FT404s. But here in North America we use gear oil in the gear boxes (front diff/mid-connect/tranny/rear diff) and hydraulic fluid for the hydraulics.
//greg//

The Nortrac (sp?) manual quotes the same as my original Foton manual. The UTF specified is 10w30 grade. Wonder if Tommy is following this thread would be interested to know what he uses in the Fotons he sells.

 

[Wa11banger]

Ok still have not found a fill or drain plug for the transmission it seems the only set I have is for the gear box.

However, I found something interesting in the front axle. There was no "upper" fill plug on the front gearbox but I have two small plugs on each axle tube. I cleaned some of the dirt and grime off around them and found a small sight glass window in each of them. How full should I make them somewhere in the middle or fill over them?

 

[Rich Waugh]

Yep, those should be the fill points for the whole front axle assembly. It doesn't hold a huge amount. No point in overfilling them - midway on a sight glass us generally the intended level. The gearbox fill point fills the gearbox (transmission) and the rear axle assembly. You should be all set, i think.

Twin sump means the gearbox and hydraulic sump are two separate sumps. As far as I know, the rear axle assembly on a Foton is like a Jinma and is part of the gearbox sump and is filled when you fill the gearbox.

 

[Wa11banger]

Twin sump means the gearbox and hydraulic sump are two separate sumps. As far as I know, the rear axle assembly on a Foton is like a Jinma and is part of the gearbox sump and is filled when you fill the gearbox.

Awesome thanks for that clarification. I knew the hydraulics were seperate but I was confused as to wether or not the transmission and rearend were, and thought everyone was saying they were also dual sumped.

The front axle definitely has gear oil in it ( has that gear oil smell to it) but I I think the transmission /rearend has universal hydraulic fluid in it, no real smell and not very thick. It is kind of muddy looking in there as well, is that because the brakes are in there too?

 

[greg_g]

When you change or top up the front axle gear oil (it uses the same as the other gear boxes) you only need to add enough to cover the right and left shafts. The sight glass is really there so you can check the quality of the gear oil without opening up. If it gets foamy on the sight glass, you know it's time to change. If there's no splash on the sight glass, you know it's time to top up. You can see the axles through the open fill hole. You only need enough gear oil so you just barely cover the shafts. After that, it works on the simple splash-lube principle. But look also at the outboard drive housings. You may have check and fill points there too.

The transmission by the way, IS a gear box. Gear box is simply a generic and all-inclusive phrase to differentiate them from the separate hydraulic box (sump) which has no gears. Wherever there is a gear train on these tractors, it's enclosed in a "gear box". The individual gear boxes are subsequently differentiated relative to the job they perform; front end, mid-connect, tranny, rear diff, outboard drives, et cetera.

//greg//

 

[Wa11banger]

Greg, Zonta, and Rich,

Thanks you all for your help.. I think you finally got me steered around in the right direction. I called Affordable today and talked to Harold. Great guy, great support/info, and he confirmed Greg is correct. Here in the US we put 80-90w in the front end, the gear box, and the front spindle gearboxes. AW32 in the hydraulics and I am going to follow Greg's advice on the injector pump and use compressor oil. Still havent figured out if I am a wet or dry sleeve so I will leave the antifreeze as is until I do.

I have a steering issue I am troubleshooting as well but I will open a new post for that so that this one stays on track for anyone else that might have the same questions and wants to review all of this great information.

Thanks again all

Rick

 

[Rich Waugh]

Rick,

GO ahead and change out your coolant, using a diesel-rated coolant such as FleetCharge with SCAs (supplemental cooling additives) designed for wet-sleeved engines. If your engine is dry-sleeved the SCAs won't hurt it a bit and my guess is that it is wet-sleeved in which case it is necessary. Old coolant is bad, regardless of type, so replace it with the good stuff and rest easy knowing that you've done a good thing for your engine.

I addressed your steering issue in the other thread.

 

[Hickory Creek]

Thank all of you above for this thread. I am about to tackle the fluids on a 404 as I have no idea when they were changed. Above info. was excellent. At least I know wheere to start my search.

One quick question for W11banger. have you found a cross over domestic brand oil filter that fits the engine? I'm getting ready to order a part and was going to order a filter also, but would love to get domestic one as I think I need to drop the oil pan. Greg, jump in here and help me. Think tractor is a 2000 model. Have had it for almost two years, has been down more than running. Have put about 20 hours on it. Thinking that maybe I need to drop oil pan and see what type of crud is in bottom of pan. I have been told by locals to just empty old oil, fill with deisel and run for a minute and then redrain. This thinking scares me, as I hate to ruin anything. This tractor knocks at idle, but sounds a lot better once revs come up.

 

[Rich Waugh]

All diesels knock at idle. Unless it's bad enough to convince you a journal is hammered, I wouldn't sweat it too much. The flushing with diesel or kerosene (preferred) is a good plan. I wouldn't drop the pan unless I found something horrible when straining the flushings from the crankcase. Have you ever set the valve lash or re-torqued the head? This should be done at 50 hours and at 200 hour intervals thereafter. Incorrect valve timing can affect the knocking you hear at idle, too.