BitChin home build

[Stick895]

Very nice. Where's your tractor go?

 

[soilsailor]

Very impressive.

We are in the planning process (as you may recall) for our home build. I've had several conversations with Chris at Clydesdale.

We are looking at something similar in design - really a one story with a small knee wall for the loft area over the kitchen and front entry areas of the house.

Two specific questions at the moment.

1) What pitch do you have for the roof over the living/loft areas? We have been using 8:12 in the floor plan software, but I have a slight headroom problem when exiting onto the loft. I can fix that by either increasing the pitch, increasing the loft kneewall height, or changing the orientation of the last span of stair run by 90 degrees.

2) Regarding your 3T GSHP. Do you distribute the heat for the basement and first floor with in-floor tubing (i.e. hydronic heating), straight to forced air, or some combination?

Thanks.

Rick

 

[weldingisfun]

Wow, BitChin. Very nice. Congrats.

 

[EddieWalker]

Congratulations, that's a very nice home!!!!

Eddie

 

[BitChin1]

Very nice. Where's your tractor go?

Right now it is in my garage - 4th bay supposed to be a workshop but tractor with rear blade takes up space
Wife has ok'd a detached garage and we are in early stages of getting permits/approvals and design details

 

[BitChin1]

Very impressive.

We are in the planning process (as you may recall) for our home build. I've had several conversations with Chris at Clydesdale.

We are looking at something similar in design - really a one story with a small knee wall for the loft area over the kitchen and front entry areas of the house.

Two specific questions at the moment.

1) What pitch do you have for the roof over the living/loft areas? We have been using 8:12 in the floor plan software, but I have a slight headroom problem when exiting onto the loft. I can fix that by either increasing the pitch, increasing the loft kneewall height, or changing the orientation of the last span of stair run by 90 degrees.

2) Regarding your 3T GSHP. Do you distribute the heat for the basement and first floor with in-floor tubing (i.e. hydronic heating), straight to forced air, or some combination?

Thanks.

Rick

Yep talked with Chris the other day - he is great to work with

Main pitch is 8:12 in our 3 bent great room
other areas are 4:12 for shed style roof over MBr, porch and pantry

we initially started with a 4' knee wall but to gain access into the bonus room we raised it to 8' knee wall (was minimal extra cost - SIP and siding primarily) really opens up the area in the loft as well as volume over great room (although it would have been there at 4' also)
If you go with taller pitch and use SIPs think about total span - I think they could go 24' and in my case I wanted as few joints as possible

For the basement and 1st floor we have 2 zone forced air - it was very easy to run this duct work.
We had spent a fair amount of time working on radiant or duct and in the end it was cost decision and realization that my heating load is relatively small for most of the year (even with current temps and little sun the unit runs about 30% of time overnight then rarely during the day as my south windows provide plenty of heat)
The duct work was free (needed it for summer cooling) and radiant was ~$8k for distribution tubing, and $2k more on unit for water heating

We were trying to hit a budget and by the time this decision had to be finalized we were already aware we were going to go over

On budget as you work with Chris - I found that cost is control is primarily related to number of joints in your frame - reduce as possible. This led to the 3 bent design with 16' and 20' spans then the shed roof over MBr
Similar to what jk96 did you can also remove TF in areas that are less "exposed" and in general remove rooms you don't need

 

[BitChin1]

Thanks Eddie and Weldinisfun - we are enjoying it and I really liked building it (most of the time:dance1

We lived in town for for 25yrs and living out here we were a little concerned about how long or how many trips to town we would make - we quickly learned to combine trips, I stop by store on way out from work etc - also 12 miles is not very far)

The other day my wife was sitting in the loft looking out the windows as two young hawks were hunting - she came over to me and with a big hug she said "thank you for convincing me to move out here, I love it here" :thumbsup:

We already find that we don't go to town during busy times - too much traffic (as if Wichita actually has traffic)

 

[deerseeker001]

looks great

 

[murphy1244]

Really like the look of open Beam type house. Nice Job!

 

[s219]

That looks awesome -- I didn't see a thing I wouldn't choose for myself (and saw a few things I did choose for our home, including that carved-blade ceiling fan). I am a big fan of SIPS, and we considered it for our home. There is a huge energy advantage of not having lots of studs bridging the thermal gap, and it makes for a really stiff and quiet structure. Did you go with 6" panels?

Now that you've done the whole timber-frame & SIPS build process, how do you feel about cost and procedures compared to normal stick building? Anything you'd do differently?

 

[deezler]

Holy schnitz. What a palace! How big is your family?

Those theater seats....!

Care to share any financials?

Congratulations. It must be supremely rewarding to own a place like that.

 

[J F]

Awesome! The house is definitely "bitchin'".:thumbsup:

 

[s219]

Holy schnitz. What a palace! How big is your family?

Those theater seats....!

Notice the theater seats set against the backdrop of yellow fiberglass insulation -- I can't tell if that's for better acoustics or just part of the rustic decor.

But that reminds me of how my dad (a builder) did our home when I was about 9 years old. In the living room, we had nice oriental rugs and furniture set on a rustic plywood subfloor, and perched under some very nice classic Owens-Corning paper face insulation on the ceiling. Stayed like that for quite some time (and he didn't finish trimming until he sold the house about 21 years later). Made for elegant family gatherings. Would have made for a great showroom at the builder supply house.

 

[BitChin1]

That looks awesome -- I didn't see a thing I wouldn't choose for myself (and saw a few things I did choose for our home, including that carved-blade ceiling fan). I am a big fan of SIPS, and we considered it for our home. There is a huge energy advantage of not having lots of studs bridging the thermal gap, and it makes for a really stiff and quiet structure. Did you go with 6" panels?

Now that you've done the whole timber-frame & SIPS build process, how do you feel about cost and procedures compared to normal stick building? Anything you'd do differently?

I really "struggled" with decision on SIPs vs some other method (looked at many) in the end it came down to available time and really liking the thought of closed in structure in 3 days.
We used 4" SIPs for walls and 6.5" roof
They are Polyurethane from Thermocore out of Missouri. Walls used standard window/door frames so no added cost there.

I used 2x8 wall framing in basement and 2x6 framing for butler pantry and gable wall of theater. Each with spray in foam
I also did not use a SIP in the common wall with the attached garage.

In retrospect I would use the SIPs again - cost adder was significant but then again it was ~ 2.5% adder to total build cost. I decided to limit SIP to what fit on 1 truck (saved $2000 for 2nd delivery) but when doing leakage test all leaks were in areas using studs/spray foam!
we used a spray on weather barrier from Tremco - which reduced air flow significantly but still leaks occurred.
Now that I am living in the house I have several cold areas in Butlers Pantry that align with wall studs (probably could have solved this by using a layer of foam under sheetrock or the exterior siding)

Also through the entire project the one sub I had issues with was the framing crew(s) - had to replace 1st and 2nd was not much better - in this area the good crews are locked up and in general this seems to be lowest skill level group (not a dig on them just my perception that it is the case - entry labor point issue) - this would have been much more of an issue had I been adding a frame over entire house

 

[BitChin1]

Holy schnitz. What a palace! How big is your family?

Those theater seats....!

Care to share any financials?

Thanks - we are enjoying it.

I expect this to be my retirement home (although wife has been eyeing land in TN :confused3
Currently my son lives with us (3rd year collage) and Daughter graduates from collage this May - she still uses the "guest room" in the basement

We have used the theater several times with up to 14 people - bar area in rear actually get used extensively for ball games and even reasonable for movies.

My total build cost (not including land) was ~ $525k so in neighborhood of $103/sq ft
The house some how grew as the design process progressed - goal was to downsize, in reality we added ~ 12% in sq ft but have 40% fewer rooms

Theater cost for construction is $2900 - other than spray foam in roof I have done all work myself in this room - most of the cost was the spray foam and $400 adder for attic trusses
Adders:
Theater equipment is ~ $13,500 (Speakers, projector, screen, seating, receiver, Blu-ray, Amps etc) - but hey at $12 per seat at the local theater I have already saved nearly $1000 in ticket cost :drink:

I have also added a yard, planted 125+ trees, some mulched beds - cost here I have not tracked well

 

[BitChin1]

Notice the theater seats set against the backdrop of yellow fiberglass insulation -- I can't tell if that's for better acoustics or just part of the rustic decor.

But that reminds me of how my dad (a builder) did our home when I was about 9 years old. In the living room, we had nice oriental rugs and furniture set on a rustic plywood subfloor, and perched under some very nice classic Owens-Corning paper face insulation on the ceiling. Stayed like that for quite some time (and he didn't finish trimming until he sold the house about 21 years later). Made for elegant family gatherings. Would have made for a great showroom at the builder supply house.

So I think your dad and I would get along well!
Wife's 1st comment when I got the projector running was "so I guess this means the trim won't get finished?"

I do hope to prove her wrong though
The exposed insulation is in the knee wall and I will be adding another acoustic panel over it (black burlap over Homasote panel) - combination in the corners is functioning as Bass trap - the 4 other spaces will be built in cabinets

 

[s219]

I really "struggled" with decision on SIPs vs some other method (looked at many) in the end it came down to available time and really liking the thought of closed in structure in 3 days.

That is a big plus -- we went through several rainy periods and a hurricane with our framing open to the elements, and that really bothered me. I fell lucky, as we beat the neighbors next door just in time to avoid a real shot of rain that clobbered their home and resulted in bad mold problems in their crawl space.

In retrospect I would use the SIPs again - cost adder was significant but then again it was ~ 2.5% adder to total build cost. I decided to limit SIP to what fit on 1 truck (saved $2000 for 2nd delivery) but when doing leakage test all leaks were in areas using studs/spray foam!
we used a spray on weather barrier from Tremco - which reduced air flow significantly but still leaks occurred.
Now that I am living in the house I have several cold areas in Butlers Pantry that align with wall studs (probably could have solved this by using a layer of foam under sheetrock or the exterior siding)

I can believe all of that -- we went with 2x6 walls, spray foam, and cellulose (considered using staggered 2x4 studs to make a 6" wall with a thermal gap, but none of the framers were willing to do it). As tight as spray foam is compared to standard insulation, there are still plenty of leak paths. We only chased down big ones. And at the end of the project we had to add a makeup air vent for the range hood anyhow, as well as fresh air kit for fireplace.

The fact that you notice cold areas with the stick framed walls is a good illustration how well the other SIPS walls insulate. That is a good data point to share if anyone ever wonders about the benefits of SIPS.

With our 2x6 sprayfoam walls, I notice cold spots in corners where there are double/triple studs. Small dormers are especially bad, as 30-50% of the wall may have framing bridging across the wall once you consider the corners and the king/jack studs and header. I pointed that out to our builder as a classic example where 2x6 and sprayfoam will have almost zero benefit compared to the R-1 value of all the wood framing packed in there.

Also through the entire project the one sub I had issues with was the framing crew(s) - had to replace 1st and 2nd was not much better - in this area the good crews are locked up and in general this seems to be lowest skill level group (not a dig on them just my perception that it is the case - entry labor point issue) - this would have been much more of an issue had I been adding a frame over entire house

When we were framing during 2012, framers were scarce. Seems like the downturn in the housing market shook loose a lot of framing crews, and whoever was left was in high demand. We did get the crew our builder preferred, but waited a few extra weeks. And they were simultaneously framing three homes, dividing up into crews and working weekends. It went a lot slower than normal, with spurts of progress, even though the actual workers were busy busy.

 

[BitChin1]

With our 2x6 sprayfoam walls, I notice cold spots in corners where there are double/triple studs. Small dormers are especially bad, as 30-50% of the wall may have framing bridging across the wall once you consider the corners and the king/jack studs and header. I pointed that out to our builder as a classic example where 2x6 and sprayfoam will have almost zero benefit compared to the R-1 value of all the wood framing packed in there.

One other interesting point is with recent could snap and snow we have good frost layer on roofs in the morning - my SIP roof has 4 long lines where each 8' panel intersects (~R12 vs R40 for balance of panel) neighbors roof is vaulted (using 2x12's he thinks) and he has lines every 2'. Also all of my neighbors roofs frost and snow melt well before mine does (all same color shingle)
Yes I would use SIP's again :thumbsup:

As I sit here looking out north windows I do think I could have reduced North glazing a bit if I were to do it again, although it is very cloudy today 7deg with 25mph wind from the N and my heatpump has not run since 7:45am this morning - thermo setpoint is 65deg - current room temp is 68deg (seems even on cloudy days my HSHG windows gain heat)

One other note - be sure plumber installs water softener correctly - we discovered this weekend ours was installed reverse (incoming water through out port etc) and our water and therefore Heatpump are disconnected today (why I know it has not run since 7:45 when I turned it off)

 

[jk96]

Thanks for taking the time to post these. I love looking at different TF homes and really enjoyed looking through the pics. Really like the kitchen sink. My wife found a similar one that we really liked. In the end it fell into the "want" category and not the "need" category. We have already purchased a lot of items that don't really fit into the need category which can ruin a budget real quick.

 

[BitChin1]

Thanks for taking the time to post these. I love looking at different TF homes and really enjoyed looking through the pics. Really like the kitchen sink. My wife found a similar one that we really liked. In the end it fell into the "want" category and not the "need" category. We have already purchased a lot of items that don't really fit into the need category which can ruin a budget real quick.

Yes they can - I spent much of my time getting quotes, google search etc to get best deals - fairly amazing the cost difference you can find on the same material or very similar material - but it takes time.

Looking forward to more progress pics on your build