Big box stores: Inferior tools?

[lockhaven]

it depends on the product, John Deere sells tractors at the big box stores but they have a different model number then the tractors sold at dealers. power tools are a different matter, regardless of the brand you must look and see where they are made. If made in China or Mexico they are all the same except for the name on the box, none are made in the USA any longer. look for made in Germany for quality beware of assembled or packaged in USA still made in China and mexico

 

[Code54]

I really think you have a better chance finding sasquatch than having a manufacture retool their entire production line to make a cheaper wrench/socket/etc for a box store. That would cost MORE than they could save making it cheaper. I hear complaints all the time about Lowes/HD tools and have used both (wrenches/ratchets/etc) just below a professional level and never had one problem. If I do, I will take it back and they give me a new one so why worry about it???

 

[jymbee]

Sad thing about Craftsman is that they have gradually cheapened their hand tools by selling inferior quality imports where most of them used to be USA made...there IS a difference.

Excellent point. The sad part is that consumers rarely are aware of the behind the scenes shenanigans that companies employ. For example, a highly recognizable brand may be bought out by a new company and the ONLY thing they keep is the name.

 

[rtimgray]

I've yet to have failures from any of my Ridgid tools tools that came from HD, and they've already made alot of cabinets and other woodworking projects. I've bought Dewalt, Milwaukee, Ryobi and a few assorted other tools from both Lowes and HD and can't say that I've had any failures that would be uncharacteristic (my Milwaukee Sawzall quit working after years and years and years and I think it may just be where I've pulled the power cord loose). I've got a Milwaukee hammer drill that came from an electrical supply house that I've used for 15 years, on and off, and it finally died this year. Does that mean that the electrical supply house had an inferior version of the tool - no, it means it wore out after many years of use.

I really don't think that manufacturer's change their products significantly for a vendor. I work at a private label manufacturing plant and can tell you exactly what other people have already intimated in this thread - it is more costly to change over a production line to make a product differently than it is to continue to run the same product and put it in a different carton/box.

That's my experience with it, anyway.

Good luck and take care.

 

[JDgreen227]

Excellent point. The sad part is that consumers rarely are aware of the behind the scenes shenanigans that companies employ. For example, a highly recognizable brand may be bought out by a new company and the ONLY thing they keep is the name.

I began buying Craftsman power tools in the early 80's...they were USA made and used Emerson Electric motors...I still have a circular saw, jigsaw, corded drills, Sawzall, and sanders etc. from then and they still work great...no way will the imported power tools they sell today give the kind of service life my old ones have. They want you to throw them away and buy a new one.

 

[orezok]

I recently bought a Char-Broil grill at HD. It was the last one they had on the floor and was quite dirty from setting around. I got it home and found that after I cleaned it up it had quite a bit of floor rash. Returned it and ordered the exact same model from Amazon.

I can tell you that there were significant differences. The burner system was completely different and was MUCH cheaper on the HD model. The Amazon burners diffusion plates and grates were stainless, the HD were steel. There were other differences also. Interesting part is that both cost the exact same amount.

 

[Bigkrank]

Buy a set of faucets from Lowes and buy the same brand/model from a plumbing supply house and take them apart. Plastic crap in Lowes and brass in plumbing house set. Boxes look the same. Not sure if this applies to tools.

 

[dmccarty]

This is a debate where both sides are right and wrong. :laughing:

Reading the link about JD tractors the comments are saying that the low end JD mowers sold by JD and Lowes/HD are the same. I will dig into this more next year because we are going to buy a riding lawn mower so I will compare models and prices at Lowes and JD. Most likely I will buy from JD because they have provided me with excellent service over the years. One of the interesting things in the JD mower link was that the JD dealer was setting up the tractors for the big box store. I have not noticed dealer stickers on the mowers at the stores but I will look next visit.

Stores and brands are changing model numbers on products to confuse customers. Partly this is because the Internet makes it easy to shop and compare prices but also to try to stop people from browsing at the store and then using either the home PC or the smart phone to buy else where.

I used to by Craftsman's tools but stopped when some of the newer tools failed frequently. I also stopped because I just don't go to malls so that kinda leaves out Sears. The Kobalt hand tools I have bought have impressed me so far. No problems.

Later,
Dan

 

[mikehaugen]

I've even been told that redimix concrete in the identical package from the same manufacturer is not as good at HD. Really?

I'm not sure it's true and I don't know how to prove it.

while not redimix, I used to work for a company that made quikrete. It is a franchise, I did not work for "quikrete" but for a company that made that, spec-mix, and c-cure... 3 different franchises. While there were differences in quality control between the brands (c-cure was very picky and had high standards) quikrete was the same no matter who we sold it to, whether it be HD, Lowes, Ace, or a contractor supply.

I don't think tools differ from store to store, though I see it being possible. I know it's a little different but I now work at a place that makes boxes. Some customers are pickier than others and the operators need to be aware of that and adjust what they will let "slide." The same could be done with tools, though I doubt it. The more I look into tools, the more confusing it becomes. Just because someone puts their name on something doesn't mean they manufacture it. "western forge" makes a lot of tools for craftsman, s-k has been bought out countless times and is now owned by Ideal who is still manufacturing their tools here for now. Snap-on, Mac, Matco sells a lot of "re-badged" tools from other manufacturers. They put their name on them and sell them for more money, but also back them with their warranties. Matco is actually owned by danaher tool group, who also also makes armstrong if I remember correctly. Many snap-on air tools are made by Sioux. Look up Apex tool group to see how many companies they own.

I like ridgid power tools, but I don't think I will buy them anymore because if you dig through all of the layers of ownership they are actually owned by a chinese company. Same can be said for Milwaukee I believe. Milwaukee makes awesome tools, but are made overseas (the sawzall is "assembled in USA"). Same goes for just about all power tools. Dewalts are mostly made in Mexico which is slightly better. Metabo is mostly made in Germany.

 

[mikehaugen]

I forgot to add that talking to a Miller dealer, he pointed out to me the differences between their mig welders and the ones sold at "box stores". I can't remember what they were though... sorry!

 

[LD1]

Well if it is true then it is more than just tools.....I had a plumber tell me the plumbing fixtures ..faucets, toilets etc. at the big box stores with the brand names were a cheaper and inferior version than the same brand names at the plumbing supply houses.

Its funny you mention the plumbing. Mom and dad are having a house built, and one of the plumbers told him the EXACT SAME THING. I call BS. Its cheaper because of VOLUME. Wen you order 1,000,000,000 of something, it is going to be cheaper per unit than a "mom and pop" plumbing house that buys 100.

We just had to replace a faucet at work. Got a moen from lowes. NO plastic parts. ALL the plumbing inside was copper and brass. Go figure. Plumbers claim them to be inferior to justify the high costs they pay.

Same for tools, appliances, you name it. When I did my polebarn, I priced several places. Menards, lowes, a local amish guy, and a place that deals and sells ONLY metal. THAT guy was the highest. His excuse....he is the only one selling 1st grade, everyone else sells seconds:laughing:

There are SOME cases where you cannot get the same quality at a box store though. But the Box-store models certainly arent the same part number. If you are shopping for model x1234 and both a box-store and specialized dealer carry the SAME model x1234....it is going to be the SAME.

When the manufacture makes tools, or fixtures, or whatever, and boxes them up and puts a model # on them, and stacks them on a pallet, you really think they know which ones are destined to be in a box store and which ones arent? And if you really think that...:mur:

 

[OrangeAgain]

A few years ago we had a "Monitor Barn" addition built for additional living / office space and three garage bays. I selected a highly recommended American Standard (AS) toilet and got prices for the model number from Home Depot and two local plumbing supply houses. Home Depot was significantly lower in price. Each plumbing house told me the quality of the Home Depot product was inferior. I contacted AS and they replied that if the model number is the same, the quality is the same wherever purchased. I sent the AS email to the plumbing houses.

This myth is one that is perpetuated by plumbing houses and the contractors that buy from them.

 

[Luremaker]

About 8 years ago I purchased two identical Delta washroom sink fixtures. One came from a plumbing house and the second one from HD. The one from the plumbing house looks brand new while the one from HD has the chrome peeling off. I think one from the plumbing house was made out of brass and the HD model is made from zinc.

 

[LD1]

About 8 years ago I purchased two identical Delta washroom sink fixtures. One came from a plumbing house and the second one from HD. The one from the plumbing house looks brand new while the one from HD has the chrome peeling off. I think one from the plumbing house was made out of brass and the HD model is made from zinc.

Are you SURE it was an identica part #. Doesnt matter if they "look" identical. What did the PN tell you.

And did you contact delta about it? And what was the price difference?

 

[Luremaker]

Are you SURE it was an identica part #. Doesnt matter if they "look" identical. What did the PN tell you.

And did you contact delta about it? And what was the price difference?

It's been so long now I can't say of the part numbers were identical. I was in the local plumbing shop and that fixture was on the discount shelf and I purchased it for my shop. My wife liked the faucet so a few months later we purchased the one for the house from HD. Box looked identical to me and instruction sheet was the same. Only difference I can see 8 years later is the chrome finish peeling off on one purchased from HD. Honestly, I can't remember what I paid for them.

 

[dmccarty]

...
We just had to replace a faucet at work. Got a moen from lowes. NO plastic parts. ALL the plumbing inside was copper and brass. Go figure. Plumbers claim them to be inferior to justify the high costs they pay...

When we built our house we worked out a deal with HD that allowed us to get 10% off whatever we bought for the house. We bought Moen for the kitchen sink faucet and it was not cheap but it had the look she wanted and the features I wanted. The faucet worked mostly fine for seven years until this year. The faucet has a "switch" to spray or not spray. This switch was under a piece of rubber like material. Eventually the rubber like cover ripped off. Seems like we had another problem with some gaskets, or some such, that caused the faucet to drip. With the drip we called them and they sent us replacement parts. This year we called up about the rubber cover, they asked about leaks, and said for $25-50 or so they would send a replacement faucet. We paid for a new faucet. We priced a new Moen that was similar to what we had installed in the house and it was $200-300.

The faucet should not have had problems, and the rubber cover is problematic, but I can only praise their Moen's response to the problem.

The builder and contractors knew we were buying some supplies from HD. None of the contractors cared where we bought the stuff.

Later,
Dan

 

[aczlan]

On the Big Box vs dealer Deeres: take a look at http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/john-deere-lawn-garden/234349-jd-dealer-vs-lowes-hd.html for some good commentary on the subject.
Essentially, if the model number is the same, it is the same tractor no matter where you buy it.

Aaron Z

 

[s219]

Well if it is true then it is more than just tools.....I had a plumber tell me the plumbing fixtures ..faucets, toilets etc. at the big box stores with the brand names were a cheaper and inferior version than the same brand names at the plumbing supply houses...I did not believe him and when we built our house 8 yrs. ago we bought all Price Phister brand fixtures from Home Depot at about a third of the cost from a plumbing supply house and we have not had one problem in those 8 yrs....I find it hard to believe big companies would compromise their brands that way.

We just picked out all our plumbing fixtures for a new house, and I did find that several of the products were different between the plumbing supply house and Lowes. I was just doing a sanity check on prices, and initially concluded that the supply house was too high. But danged if there weren't differences in specs. Same toilet model name was really a different model at Lowes versus the plumbing supply house. The Lowes model had lower GPF and a few other missing features (who knew a toilet had features was my first reaction). Same thing for the faucets. I was surprised, but our builder was not.

 

[brin]

We just picked out all our plumbing fixtures for a new house, and I did find that several of the products were different between the plumbing supply house and Lowes. I was just doing a sanity check on prices, and initially concluded that the supply house was too high. But danged if there weren't differences in specs. Same toilet model name was really a different model at Lowes versus the plumbing supply house. The Lowes model had lower GPF and a few other missing features (who knew a toilet had features was my first reaction). Same thing for the faucets. I was surprised, but our builder was not.

So - don't leave us in suspense...did you pop for the more expensive fixtures or buy the ones at Lowes..? I bought the ones at Lowes...Price Phister....and they work great for 8 yrs. now...they were less than half the price the plumbing supply wanted for the same fixtures...It was a lot of difference...we had 5 faucet fixtures ...1 for the kitchen and the rest for bathrooms...just all the sinks...not counting toilets, showers or tubs..and it was a of about $800.00 as I recall...even more if we count the toilets, tubs and showers...all of which are great after 8 yrs.

 

[Pops15]

I would say most tools at the box stores are the same as you can buy anywhere....as long as the model numbers are the same.

Someone mentioned Price Phister. I think their stuff is the same everywhere.

Moen most definitely makes a cheaper model faucet for Lowes. Some models look identical to the more expensive versions sold at plumbing wholesale houses......but the model numbers are different. Moen will stand behind the Lowes version but you need to keep all your paperwork.

I know Lowes specs products made by Kaftmaid cabinets, Larson storm doors, and other products as well. These companies all make similar products for sale in other venues but the model numbers are different.

Same goes for electronics.

In every case that I know of where a box store sells a cheaper version of what someone else sells they use a different part or model number.