Bidding a job

JohnSr · Jan 15, 2005

I need some advice from some of you wise men out there that use their tractors to make money! I am finding that all I need to do is pull mine around on the trailer and people just start asking me "how much for this" and stuff like that. It's good because I really need the money right now!

I was recently asked by a General Contractor to bid on a small job on a farm. The farmer has a drainage problem on one side of his barn that is made worse by the HUMONGOUS Black Angus cattle (I cant help but see the outline of the roasts and steaks every time I look at them)! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

They want me to use my Hoe attachment to dig a trench that is 60' long, 16" wide (bucket width), and 3' deep. Then drop in gravel, drainpipe and backfill. Then they would need some slight re-grading to make sure any excess runoff runs away from the barn which I planned on using my boxblade for. The material (gravel & pipe) will be provided by the GC.

I "envisioned" two 8-hour days and threw in an extra 4-hours to cover any holdups because of the conditions of the terrain. So 20 hours at $55 an hour. The GC seems to think my bid is way low and asked me to get some advice from someone in the biz before he accepts it (extremely nice GC trying to help me get started).

What do you guys think??? I have been searching the web all night trying to find a forum for "Dirt Work" or "Backhoe Service" and have found nothing. I am probably heading to the library later to find some books on estimating but would value your opinions above all.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and share your knowledge and experience.

JohnSr

KiotiJohn · Jan 15, 2005

I think that if the GC thought it was way low, you should double it. I haven't been in that same situation, and I don't do a whole lot of work for others, but I get $45/hour for brush work, and usually $55 for BH work, but in the situation you'll be in, I'm sure prices are usually much higher. I think double would make it about right. John

JerryG · Jan 15, 2005

I don't know anything about pricing in your area, but please call dig safe or what ever it is called in your area before you dig.

rdln · Jan 15, 2005

That seems like a well padded quote to me. My equipment sounds similar in size and I cant imagine more than 8 hours to do that. Is the ground frozen? How close can he get the gravel dropped off?

Well go ahead and up it to $1500 or something, It doesn't mean you have to charge that if the job goes a lot smoother.

JimR · Jan 15, 2005

My buddy gets $65.00 an hour under the table. He has a medium sized tractor with hoe.

johan3400 · Jan 15, 2005

Remember this is a business. You would not be able to work every day of every week, so you must charge enough to make money for the idle days. Standard charge for man and machine digging either with a FEL or a BH in the midwest is $75 per hour. Figure 30% contingency time. The best plan is for it to take two eight hour day, what if you have a problem. You are repsonsible for repairs on your tractor if something happens. You need to pay yourself a reasonable wage. I have seen contractors bid low to get all the bids. They end up getting too much work and not being able to get things done on a timely manor. Be careful and make sure you bid to make money. This may start to be an income producing hobby, but it could grow into a business. You can always charge less than the bid price if it takes less time, but no one likes to be surprised with a larger bill.

Henro · Jan 15, 2005

I have aB2910 and BL4690 backhoe. Last fall I dug a 250' ditch, 3' deep, 16" wide for a sewer line that was going to be inspected by the county, and so I was careful to make it flat, straight and evenly sloped. Actually, come to think about it, it was actually 42" to the trench bottom, as I needed some stone under the pipe and it was supposed to be 36" to the top of the pipe. I think the digging time was between 10 and 12 hours, which equates to 20 to 25 feet per hour. So I would expect you should be able to dig your 60' of trench in 3 hours or less.

Dumping stone and laying the pipe in a drainage ditch does not take that long. Seems to me that working alone you should be able to be done with the ditch including backfilling in less than 8 hours.

Frozen ground would be a different story, as would be wet clay that sticks and does not fall out of the bucket. A bucket that doesn't self clean well really changes the equation. IF the clay is wet, my 16" bucket can frustrate me at times. It is tiring and wastes time cleaning the bucket with a digging bar, but it more frustrating going through the motions with the backhoe and not really moving much dirt in the process, even though the bucket looks real full each time.

Grading an area can be a different story, and I would be sure to understand the expectations there. Especially if you are giving a fixed price quote. I've spent a day or two moving dirt around at my place with the loader and box blade and afterwards wondered how it could have taken so long to do relatively little.

It would probably be wise to put your quote in writing, to be sure that what you are quoting is what the person you are doing the work for is expecting you to do.

These thoughts come from someone who has never hired out his tractor so keep that in mind... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

By the way, something that worked real well for me was using some black electrical tape to mark the stick, so I would have a "measuring stick." I moved the bucket so the teeth were sticking straight out, put the teeth on the ground, then measured up 42" and wrapped a piece of black tape around the stick. Then when I was digging, all I had to do was put the bucket in the same position, touch the teeth to the ditch bottom, and look at the tape's relationship to the ground at the trench edge. I easily could tell if I needed to go a little deeper without getting off the backhoe or losing any time at all... This could be old hat or something you might try and see if it helps.

DKinWA · Jan 15, 2005

Sounds like a good easy money job. Around here, I'd say your bid price of $1,100 is in the ballpark, but I'm with Henro and think this shouldn't take more than 8 hours to complete. When I put in septic drainfields, I can usually finish one in a day with a laborer. This amounts to 240' - 270' of 2'x3' trench with 4" pipe and 12" or gravel. I should add, most of our soils are pretty easy digging with few rocks and other obstacles to slow us down.

If I was bidding a job like yours around here, I'd probably bid around $1,250 + tax ($125/hour or machine + operator = $75, laborer $50) and figure 10 hours or so to give me some extra time. Given we're talking less than 10 yards of material, I'd be bummed if I didn't have it done in 5 or 6 hours. If all goes according to plan in this case, I pay may laborer about $200 for the day and the rest goes to pay business expenses and my salary.

BTW, it sounds like the GC is a good guy and wants to make sure you get paid what you're worth. I'd definitely work on creating a good business relationship with him.

AndyClyde · Jan 15, 2005

( so you must charge enough to make money for the idle days. )

Charge for work you never do ??

Indydirtfarmer · Jan 15, 2005

A few thoughts;

Are you buying the gravel or drine pipe? If so, it's expected that you will mark that up from 20 to 40%. (at least)

I recommend taking jobs by the hour if allowed, until you get the feel for bidding work like that. You and your customer are protected that way.

Don't make "some money". Make GOOD money. You'll have to replace that hoe one of these days.

Commercial work will pay more than residential work generally.