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  1. TSO

    FRONT AXLE ISSUE ! - Massey 1500 1600 1700 series tractors (ie 1648 / 1652, etc)

    Has anyone performed work on their front axle / 4x4 system on a Massey 1652 or similar? (Should be same as 1547, 1648, 1652, 1749, etc...). I've got about 1500 hrs on my 1652. Great machine, no previous issues. During some heavy loader work recently, I've developed an issue with my 4x4. I...
  2. TSO

    Off-Topic - Dirtbike carb Q (LOOK AT PICS PLEASE)

    Yamaha PW-80 kids Dirtbike, Mikuni carb. Just took the carb apart and put back together. These 2 ports were open without any hoses when I found the bike (it was essentially a dumpster find) so I'm not sure where they should get routed to, if anywhere... or capped. Any ideas? (Note - the bike...
  3. TSO

    Massey 1652 in white

    I call it "Polar Edition"
  4. TSO

    Massey 1652 Polar edition

    Here's a few shots - in the barn, with her sister (Terex track machine) on some jobs, with the flail at the field, etc...
  5. TSO

    Any snowmobile owners who own tractors?

    Good thread! We're down in S/E Michigan. Didn't get a ton of changes to rise this year but it wasn't terrible. The kids were able to ride around the property a bunch. The wife and I have vMax 600's and the kids each have Enticer 340's.
  6. TSO

    Mowing L5740 set-up/combination

    I used to pull an 8 ft Ford pull mower, pto-to-belt driven... My machine has about 40 PTO hp. Could pull it up hills, could cut grass and weeds. Was a really great mower. I sold it and got an 8ft Ford flail-mower instead. The flail does a great job but I think the rotary mower left a nicer...
  7. TSO

    Dangit... Accidentally caused myself a bunch of work (engine repair)

    Full rebuild... Spun bearings and damaged 2 rods with excessive heat. New crank. 2 (of 4) new rods, new pistons, bearings & seals, bored .10 over but head and block were checked and were good. Rebuilt the fuel pump and injectors. New water pump. All new gaskets & seals. Probably more I...
  8. TSO

    2019 F350 crew cab lariat question

    Ok thanks, glad to hear the ride is improved with the newer models. I know my 2014 isn't "old" and I keep it in great shape.... But my only really complaint is the ride quality. I agree with you, the diesel is obviously more powerful. I don't want to turn this into a gas-vs-diesel thing...I'm...
  9. TSO

    Bought a 1999 NH 445D

    Nice looking machine! I had a 545d that o really liked. Ended up selling it because I wasn't using it enough. Tough machines.
  10. TSO

    Leveling topsoil for new lawn

    Perfect way to finish it after that is with a Landscape Tiller (ATI Preseeder is what I use). Very expensive tool ($12k) but the finished product is very nice.
  11. TSO

    Mowing.....Tell us about your yard weapons.

    Mine is a Hustler Super Z Diesel, 66" deck, Shibaura 25 HP motor. She's a beast, about 1600 lbs wet. Very smooth ride for a ZTR. She wasn't cheap but she's paid off and should last a long time. I mow about 5 acres at home and a couple commercial accounts on occasion. The grass in this...
  12. TSO

    Quite a shocker let me tell you

    Re: Be very careful if you are considering a Mahindra You can also try Northern Diesel Controls in Sterling Heights, Mich. They rebuilt the injector pump and injectors on my track loader and did a great job.
  13. TSO

    2018 Diesel Trucks - 3/4 or 1 ton - favorites and why

    Here's some of the trucks I was referring to...
  14. TSO

    Trade MF1547 for MF1749?

    I just checked TractorHouse again and you are right, very thin pickings. I'm not sure when the last time I checked was but it wasn't too terribly long ago. They were more available then than there are now to be sure... This one looks pretty interesting, (the one with no price). It doesn't have...
  15. TSO

    Massey Compact owners: hydraulic system maintenance

    Just an update... The original part number for the metal-mesh suction filter is 7069948M91 but I believe that number was replaced by 6255299M92. Those are Agco numbers. They are around $130/ea (2 required). Here's pics of the SKU #. Also, here's something interesting. I usually use...
  16. TSO

    Info on Routine Maintenance 1652

    Just an update... The original part number for the metal-mesh suction filter is 7069948M91 but I believe that number was replaced by 6255299M92. Those are Agco numbers. They are around $130/ea (2 required). Here's pics of the SKU #. Also, here's something interesting. I usually use...
  17. TSO

    Comparison Which manufacturer has the highest HP true HST tractor?

    I just sold my Ford/NH 545D industrial Tractor/Loader. It has a shuttle lever with a torque converter. Not clutch operated... No clutch to be found. They don't make them anymore. I think 2001 was the end of the line. Easy to operate... Not as easy as HST but not bad. Crazy strong loader.
  18. TSO

    Harbor Freight Tools that don't suck

    Anyone have the HF "Central Machinery" dust collection system, 2HP, 1500 CFM ? I'm starting to look for a system for my shop and this one can't be beat on price, and the reviews are great...
  19. TSO

    New Holland TN60DA - Tell me about this tractor please... or TN70DA, 75DA, etc

    Can anyone please tell me about their experiences with the TNxxDA cab machines? I'm considering jumping up a tad from my Massey 1652, but still need a cab tractor under a certain height. My Massey is about 92" to the top of the cab, and according the specs, the TNxxDA machines are also around...
  20. TSO

    Dangit... Accidentally caused myself a bunch of work (engine repair)

    Well I got everything disconnected except for 1 bolt - the bottom retaining bolt that secures the engine thru the frame to the hydraulic pumps... It's a really tight bolt and I don't have the right sized 3/4" wrench to properly grab it (I'll try to search the stores tomorrow). But otherwise...
  21. TSO

    Dangit... Accidentally caused myself a bunch of work (engine repair)

    Time to add more hickory chips into the smoker ...
  22. TSO

    Dangit... Accidentally caused myself a bunch of work (engine repair)

    Had drained my small pond and was re-carving it to be both a bit larger and a tad deeper. Everything was going "swimmingly" ([emoji12] ) until I moved to the back side and was gonna push some of the material down hill. It was crusty on top but it was a false-top... Didn't realize it was...
  23. TSO

    Tundra Update

    The frame issues were mainly related to the Gen1 Tundras, 2006 & older. I had a 2004 Sequoia (SUV version of the Tundra) and it was reviewed by the dealer for potential frame rust. No severe rust was found but they applied an undercoating on their dime. If it would have shown signs of heavy...
  24. TSO

    Ford / NH 545D Industrial Tractor - looking for owner experiences

    Thanks for posting your experience with that adapter. Your 210 looks like a nice machine. I haven't been back on this forum much because I've been so busy with work, so I figure I will update on this machine. I really like the 545d. It's tough, the loader is fantastic, the Hydraulics are...
  25. TSO

    Ford Tractor photo thread, lets start one!

    Here's one of my recent acquisitions... 93 Ford 545D Industrial, 4x4, with 8x8 Torque Converter Trans. Very stout unit!
  26. TSO

    ViaSat (Formerly Exceed)

    We have Viasat here (Excede/WildBlue). We can't get cable OR DSL at our house, so it's our only viable option. We tried HughesNet first but it was really bad. That was about 6 years ago, but we dumped it before signing directly with Viasat. Note that at that time, HughesNet actually leased...
  27. TSO

    PTO mulcher?

    Here it is on the back of the L5240... Next to a Takeuchi TL-12 we had been leasing
  28. TSO

    Ford / NH 545D Industrial Tractor - looking for owner experiences

    Yeah that's what I was trying to ask before, if I needed to put it in neutral since there is no clutch. I noticed that there is no button on the loader joystick to dump the trans, I found it on the floor instead.
  29. TSO

    Ford / NH 545D Industrial Tractor - looking for owner experiences

    Sprayed her down and removed the cab-fenders. They'll need minor repairs, and I'll probably just remake them so they're not as bulky. Hooked up the LPGS and graded the street. It definitely pulls better than my 4000 pound lighter Massey with 55 HP and HST. I could grade uphill in range 6 of...
  30. TSO

    Ford / NH 545D Industrial Tractor - looking for owner experiences

    Well, she's here! So far so good! She's very clean... Although as soon as it warms up i need to spray her off, get the road grime and salt washed off. I will need to do a little bit of "rust-repair" on the cab and fenders, but it's minor. Considering the age and hours, she's in really nice...
  31. TSO

    Ford / NH 545D Industrial Tractor - looking for owner experiences

    Well boys, it took awhile but i finally made a deal on a very clean City Owned 545D. A really great JD dealer in Iowa facilitated the deal and brought her in to their shop for a full checkup. They found and replaced a few leaking hoses and even put her on their PTO dyno to make sure she ran...
  32. TSO

    Flat face hydraulic connectors are better?

    I have FF couplers on my Terex/ASV track machine. I don't have any problems with the connections and I prefer them to the ball Ag style couplers. Like others have already mentioned, I find them much easier to clean and they do seem to leak less fluid. On that machine, I have a button on top...
  33. TSO

    Help me manage my expectations for this tree puller, please

    I have one just like that (Hawz brand) for my tracked skid-steer, which has a substantially stronger loader than what is found on our compact tractors. I have ripped out hundreds of trees with mine, ranging all the way up to 12" in some cases. I have been very happily surprised with the...
  34. TSO

    New Tractor and Flail Mower

    Very nice. I run my 90" 918h behind my Massey 1652 HST which has around 40'ish PTO HP. What made you upgrade to the new flail? Was it just a matter of getting new equipment? And congrats on the new tractor, I'll be interested to hear how you feel about the CVT transmission compared to your...
  35. TSO

    Ford / NH 545D Industrial Tractor - looking for owner experiences

    Well i checked out this one today... Local to me. Ran really well. Has a "quick attach" bucket and forks. Nice heavy implements. Brakes need adjusting. Downside is that the cab is pretty rusted. It also doesn't have rear remotes, so they're gonna get back with me this week on pricing to...
  36. TSO

    Ford / NH 545D Industrial Tractor - looking for owner experiences

    Hello... I'm considering adding another machine, and i think a 545D fits the bill. Basically looking for something with a strong loader (these are rated 5000 lbs @ max height), enough grunt to handle some grading tasks, and still light enough to tow around easy. There aren't all that many...
  37. TSO

    545D Industrial - Owner Experience / Input Requested

    Hello... I'm considering picking up another machine, and i think a 545D fits the bill. Basically looking for something with a strong loader (rated 5000 lbs @ max height), enough grunt to handle some grading tasks, and still light enough to tow around easy. There aren't all that many left for...
  38. TSO

    shop heat

    I finally have heat in my barn! Picked up a couple Trane unit heaters (hanging shop furnaces) a few years ago, but just finally got it hooked up a couple months ago. Mine is a 150k btu unit. My overall barn is 40x62, but the main section that gets heated is 40x46. Still finishing the...
  39. TSO

    84" Too much bucket for Kubota M7060 HDC12?

    I have a 90" large capacity (light material) bucket that i use on my Massey 1652... For snow, firewood, mulch, etc. I've moved little bits of dirt with it but i think it's a 1.3 yard bucket and there's no way i could actually load it with dirt and lift it with my tractor. My track loader can...
  40. TSO

    Plowing 1/2 mile driveway with a UTV. Should it be done?

    Here's the truck i bought 2 years ago... I think i paid around $1500, including the plow. Ran good. Not pretty, but drove and pushed snow well enough.
  41. TSO

    Trailer experience: Deckover vs Equipment w/ Folding ramps vs PJ Monster style ramps

    Here's my Gooseneck behind my F450 Here's my 20' equipment hauler behind my F350 Here's the Gooseneck behind the F350 I don't think i have any current pics on this phone of the dump trailer...
  42. TSO

    Great lake boats, a good video

    We actually just took a trip up to the UP and took the Soo Locks Boat Tour. It was really cool, our little boat took a trip thru the locks. That was my first time going thru the locks and it was really impressive. We went thru the smaller, older US lock going-up, and thru the Canadian...
  43. TSO

    Looking for info on Ford 550 TLB

    Well actually got to play with the tractor today. Started digging a footing for an extension to my barn. The machine did really well, digging power seems adequate. I still haven't changed fluids and filters yet, that's coming soon. The unit sometimes struggles to maintain RPM and stalled a...
  44. TSO

    Dump trailer blues... sometimes a lot is just too much.

    I have a LoadTrail 16' 14k "King size" dump trailer. The sides flare out wider to allow for increased volume and room to maneuver around your equipment. It doesn't allow you to carry extra weight, but definitely helps for extra volume. I think my PJ trailers are of better quality than my...
  45. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Been using the truck and it's been doing great. Used the Gooseneck for the first time today...
  46. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    All done. Wiring completed. Decking on. Took her to a couple jobs today, she did great. Actually... Still need to do mud flaps, plate lights, lights on the headache rack, and a backup cam. But busy season is starting so I'll get to those as time allows.
  47. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Well got the rear axle serviced, new diff cover, finished painting the frame, replaced shocks, reinstalled the trailer hitch... Got her mounted, installed the fuel-fill neck, inserted all the lights (still need to finish the wiring). Picked up lumber for the deck too, so as soon as i finish...
  48. TSO

    New Holland 54D vs Massey 1758

    Jeff it looks great. My Grandpa worked for Ford Tractor here in Mich. If Ford and New Holland were still together, I'd be more inclined to gravitate toward them. I've always liked the color scheme! I think they changed the loader tower-mount on the new machines. The ones I've seen, the...
  49. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Finally able to prep the frame (sanded, powerwash'ed, etc) and paint it. New shocks going on and servicing the rear axle when the paint dries... Hopefully I'll be mounting the bed later this week.
  50. TSO

    Mowing M7060 with mulcher

    I believe it was the FAE model "UML/LOW" and is rated for 60-100 hp. It is a 60" Cut, 72" overall, weighs around 2100 lbs. This mulcher belongs to another TBN member, KenB2920, and we had joined forces on one of our clearing jobs. His L5240 was down at the time so he ran the mulcher on my...
  51. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Finished the licence plate holes and trailer connector mount holes... All painted up! Now just need to clean up and paint the truck frame, and take care of a couple maintenance items... And then I'll get her mounted
  52. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Some updates... Here's the solution to re-locating the fuel-fill neck. I mounted it thru the side-rail, and the cap sits flush with the outside of the rail. Also finished the bulkhead. Added a few bungee and cargo strap holes. I'm not going to cage the rear window. I'd rather have...
  53. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Finished the bulkhead outer framing (still need to attach the front plate material and inner cross member) Figured it was time for a test fit. Now need to make provisions for the fuel filler ... Thanks for pointing that out, it does need some adjustment.
  54. TSO

    Finally made my choice! Should have a deal closed tomorrow, pending financing.

    Congrats on the new machine... The Iseki-built Massey machines are very hard to beat. Love mine!
  55. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Got a few hours in today... Finished the rear apron, front bulkhead braces (i had some diamond plate sitting around), and got a start on the bulkhead framing.
  56. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Made some good progress today...
  57. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Finally got everything squared up... Should make decent progress today (hopefully) And pay no mind to the mess in the barn ... Always have too many projects going to keep it pretty [emoji40]
  58. TSO

    Building a flatbed for my F350

    Ongoing project... I'll post updates as it goes. I'm hoping to complete the project within the next couple weeks. This is going on my 05 F350 ShortBed. The flatbed will measure 94"x80". The deck material will be wood. Took the bed, bumper, tailgate, lights... off the truck and sold them on...
  59. TSO

    Ford Tractor photo thread, lets start one!

    Here's the 550 Industrial TLB I recently acquired. Needs a little attention & TLC, but she's in running condition.
  60. TSO

    So many trailer manufacturers to choose from...

    I have a 20' PJ equipment hauler, a 16' LoadTrail dump trailer, and i recently purchased a 25' PJ Gooseneck deckover. I compared this latest PJ to LoadTrail and BigTex, and ultimately went with PJ again. I think they offer a great value and quality construction. Next to the BigTex, the PJ was...
  61. TSO

    2014+ Toyota Tundra 5.7.

    I agree... Big, easy to use buttons and knobs. And for the most part, laid out pretty well. Sure there are things I would change for my own personal liking but not too many complaints overall. Don't forget to add design location (Michigan), build location (Texas), and parts origin (near 80℅...
  62. TSO

    2014+ Toyota Tundra 5.7.

    I have a 2011 5.7 currently. I've also had an 04 Sequoia, 07 Tundra 4.7 and a 2010 5.7. The 5.7 powertrain hasn't changed, so the pre-14 user experience still applies. The 5.7 is a fantastic engine. For towing power, it provides a great experience and tows every very bit as well as my...
  63. TSO

    Dog pics

    Mine found a thawed water hole today in one of the fields
  64. TSO

    Looking for info on Ford 550 TLB

    Well got her home and unloaded, put her next to the Massey for a couple pics. One of my boys noticed it right away and had to climb all over it. One thing I noticed while driving it around, it's lacking power. When I try to put a load on it, like putting it in a high gear and trying to...
  65. TSO

    Looking for info on Ford 550 TLB

    Well I was able to get her started again, filled up all the tires as they had leaked down a bit, and loaded her onto the trailer. I was able to load her going forward, it wasn't too bad after all. I just took it slowly in first gear and she climbed up no problem. Now for the ride home and...
  66. TSO

    Need Help with Pole Barn Loft Design

    Here's what my uncle did with his 40x60 he just built... I believe the loft is 16' x 40' plus the 16'x12' landing. He has since finished it but i haven't been over I'm a couple weeks, I'll grab updated pics when i go back. .
  67. TSO

    Looking for info on Ford 550 TLB

    Well... took me a few hours but I got her running. Had to drain out the fuel tank, which took a while because there was about 5 to 8 gallons in there already. It was definitely old fuel, hasn't been run in at least 1.5 years from what I was told. Put new fuel in, some additive, and a new fuel...
  68. TSO

    Looking for info on Ford 550 TLB

    So I have the opportunity to pickup an older TLB from an acquaintance. I'll just say that for all practical purposes, I can have it for basically free. It's been sitting for a year, but this company used it for maintaining their business grounds and pushing snow for the last 40 years. I...
  69. TSO

    Tractors and wood! Show your pics

    Lately my tractor has been lazy, hanging out in the barn next to the plow truck.... Instead I've been using the Gator, which is actually as efficient as the tractor. I can get 1/2 face cord per load in the Gator, which perfectly fits the 1/2 face cord box in the garage, and lasts us about a week.
  70. TSO

    1/2 Ton Pick up vs. Kubota L3710 for snow plow, etc?

    This is my first year with a plow truck. Previously, I always plowed with tractors. In the pic below, you can see my F250 plow truck, as well as my Massey 1652 with 8' hydraulic back blade and 90" front bucket. For doing straight passes on my 1/4 mile driveway, my neighborhood, and wide open...
  71. TSO

    Ford F150-I'm Done.

    I love having cap also ... Dry, lockable storage, good for family trips, good for the dog too! Still enough room to haul most your stuff..
  72. TSO

    Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Pictures of your snow weapons

    My snow weapons are positioned in the barn for a quick exit ...
  73. TSO

    Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

    Someone had asked for a pic of my "double grooved" rears ... Finally had a chance to snap a pic...
  74. TSO

    Finally added hydraulics to my BackBlade

    I sold that white F250 V10 a couple years ago now, have had that F450 6.0 PSD since. BulletProofed it this spring. Although I also just picked up this '89 F250 plow truck... How's the LS holding up? And how's the 6.2L working out in that new truck?
  75. TSO

    Finally added hydraulics to my BackBlade

    Been about 3 years or so since I got this blade, finally had the chance to add the hydraulic ram. This was a spare ram I had sitting around from a previous project, and in truth the stroke is a little short, so I can't spin the blade all the way to 45-deg but it's still very workable. (Of...
  76. TSO

    Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Pictures of your snow weapons

    Here's the snow-weapon I just picked up... a well used 89 F250 302 5spd 4x4 with a good condition western plow. She's rusty but in good running condition.
  77. TSO

    No one talking about Massey Ferguson anymore ???

    Here's a couple shots of mine... a little over 700 hrs on this one now, it's never had a single problem.
  78. TSO

    How would you compare two HST transmissions?

    On a job today, took a couple pics & vids. The first vid (and I'm sorry they were so shaky) is going up a hill, first in Medium, then in Low. The second vid is pushing into a pile of topsoil, first in Medium, then Low. The tractor is a 52 HP Massey HST Cab. Loaded rear 17.5Lx24 R4 tires...
  79. TSO

    ML30 Loader MT275 Challenger tractor increase loader power

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329088 In case you weren't aware, the Challenger, AGCO, and Massey units all roll off the same assembly from Iseki in Japan. Your Massey equivalent would be the MF1540. That's the previous generation to my Massey machines, but the relief...
  80. TSO

    Ford aluminum truck beds are strong how?

    I have a Ford with an aluminum bed... must be different aluminum though, because I beat the snot out of mine and it still looks great. Regarding the commercial... I just saw that ad on tv last week for the first time, and chuckled. I refer to commercials as "propaganda" ... As already...
  81. TSO

    Look what I broke today (how does that happen?)

    that's exactly what I ended up doing.... Putting new seals on now
  82. TSO

    Look what I broke today (how does that happen?)

    Here's some close-ups of the rod. Also, I'm having a Heck of a time getting a grip on the rod, so that I can remove the nut. The metal is too hard, can't even get a pipe wrench to grab it. Tried pinching it in my tree puller even, and the rod still turns when I try to turn the nut. Any...
  83. TSO

    Look what I broke today (how does that happen?)

    Well the new rod and seal kit arrived today... probably can't get to it till tomorrow night, currently the grapple is in the shop, broke it on a job a few days ago too LOL. (Re-welded the breaks but still need to add some bracing).
  84. TSO

    ASV RC100 questions

    Well, haven't "protected" them yet ... The machine has a bit over 2000 hrs now so I suppose I can take a little time (before the wear occurs). Here's a pic of the wear
  85. TSO

    Look what I broke today (how does that happen?)

    On a grading job today, was opening the bucket to grab a boulder. All of a sudden I see fluid shooting up 15 feet. Figured it was a hose/connection... Then I saw this! The piston rod actually broke in half! New complete hydraulic cylinder from Bobcat (it's a Bobcat brand HD combo bucket)...
  86. TSO

    Your towing rigs and trailers

    Here's mine... 07 F450 Crew Lariat 4x4 6.0L PSD 4.88 gears 8' aluminum flatbed. Nice truck. But rides like a tank. Payload rating of around 8000lbs and it sure rides like it... I've had around 5000lbs on the bed while pulling 10000 lbs and it still wouldn't squat. Actually, that's probably...
  87. TSO

    Anyone here incubate chicken eggs?

    Looks like our broody hen was able to hatch 12 out of 13 eggs (#13 was a dud).
  88. TSO

    Self built Mulcher .

    We have a PTO driven mulcher, so I am familiar... I don't mean to refer to the actually "rotation" force of the unit on the PTO, I just mean the actual shock and vibration of the unit. I wasn't sure how you planned to attach and secure the output shaft. Ours is like this one...
  89. TSO

    My new additions (tree shear / puller)

    I agree on the off-center topic... the Hawz one I have is straight center
  90. TSO

    My new additions (tree shear / puller)

    I think Ken's could be considered a puller AND/OR shear... Because the "arms" overlap... whereas the "arms" on mine meet-up to just "pinch" material. (Here's a stock image of mine)
  91. TSO

    Grappling fun - A Picture Thread....

    Cleared some brush and downed trees today with my CTL ... Spring's coming!
  92. TSO

    Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Pictures of your snow weapons

    Lately I'm using my 90" high-capacity bucket and 8ft rear blade to tackle my snow escapades.
  93. TSO

    Chicken coop questions

    These are the four current ones we use, but the latest one (showcased) is the best and is the one we'll model all future ones after. Go figure, is the simplest. That's how it usually works out, simple is best. We tried all kinds of different water solutions. Ultimately, we use 2 gallon...
  94. TSO

    Question about Massey SCUT 3pt lift capacity... 1190 lbs?

    Hey fellas - those of you with GC's. According to TractorData the rear lift is 1190 @ ball ends. My seeder weighs in around 1165 lbs plus 50-100 lbs of seed. I'm considering picking up something small (no loader) with turf-tires, just to roll the grass seeder around without rutting up freshly...
  95. TSO

    PTO shaft "stub" broke off

  96. TSO

    PTO shaft "stub" broke off

    Here is Ken's mulcher on my Massey 1652, along with the Bobcat T770 we were using for awhile...
  97. TSO

    Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

    Just finished grooving my tires... Desperately needed it!
  98. TSO

    Tracked Skid Steer shopping ... your input please

    Still trying out the Terex/ASV. Weather has been pretty crappy, so I haven't been able to use it as much as i like. Got a few more hours in yesterday, and I'm hoping to get some more this week. Ran it along with a good size (25,000 lbs), but older dozer yesterday while moving big dirt around...
  99. TSO

    How is AGCO on parts availabilty?

    I've broken a few items (cosmetic) on my Massey, and parts come quickly, a few days. The biggest factor I've seen related to timing is the dealer, usually they will wait until the order is above a certain dollar amount before they place it, to save on shipping.
  100. TSO

    Tracked Skid Steer shopping ... your input please

    Little update... Last week I ran a Bobcat T770 for about 30 hrs, clearing some land. Found the machine to be pretty loud, visibility sucked. Had foot controls, which I'm not a fan of. I can run them well, and I don't mind the hand portion (like a zero turn)... But HATE using my feet for...
  101. TSO

    Tracked Skid Steer shopping..... experienced input requested

    Please see the following thread... http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/construction-equipment/346495-tracked-skid-steer-shopping-your.html
  102. TSO

    Tracked Skid Steer shopping ... your input please

    I am in the market for a a tracked SkidSteer. I am adding this piece to my landscape company to assist with both rough and finish grading and dirt moving projects, as well as some small land clearing work (nothing major, maybe later I'll look for a 100 HP machine and mulcher), moving sod and...
  103. TSO

    HELP PLEASE 2006 challenger mt265b

    it has under 500 hrs ... That's very low hours. Regardless, it's not my tractor. I responded to offer a possible insight and solution. Which is why I said to take it to a Massey dealer.
  104. TSO

    HELP PLEASE 2006 challenger mt265b

    Someone must have run it very hot after it lost coolant, maybe they damaged the radiator or a hose during use and didn't realize it. Anyhow, that's also a Massey 1533. Find a Massey dealer and a head shop (to resurface your head) they should be able to help.
  105. TSO

    My NX6010

    I don't have a tag on my tractor tongue like you do... My tongue is just stamped as "rated for 12,500" ... But here's the sticker on my frame:
  106. TSO

    Massey Compact owners: hydraulic system maintenance

    Some folks might not be aware of the cleanable, metal-mesh hydraulic filters underneath the tractor. These need to be removed and cleaned. I believe the first cleaning is required at 150 hrs. They are definitely not as convenient to service as typical spin on canisters, but then again, no...
  107. TSO

    Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

    Still happy with the cut quality on this 918H... It may be 50lbs or so lighter than the HD Mott, but it's still a nice unit. Needs new blades too...
  108. TSO

    Small Dozer under 10,000 lbs ... do they exist?

    Can anyone point out a few machines that I could look at? I am considering picking up a small dozer as my business expands. But I would like something that I could trailer around easily. I am rated to pull around 18,000 pounds but would like to keep the machine under 10K on a 14K trailer...
  109. TSO

    New Massey Tractors... small utility, 2705e & 2706e

    Have you guys seen the newest Massey tractors? Looks like direct competition to the Kubota MX series. Looks like 48 & 57 HP Shibaura tier4 engines, 8x8 shuttle or 3 range HST. Massey Ferguson | 2700E Series Utility Tractor
  110. TSO

    No more deere, new massey 5611

    Yeah and the 46xx tractors aren't tiny. Here's one next to my 1652 at my sod providers farm. They're nice, but I'd take a 56 gladly!
  111. TSO

    No more deere, new massey 5611

    Here's the 5610 I played on, next to a 4610. Much bigger and nicer cab than the 4610, which isn't really much bigger than the cab on my 1648 & 52. Which engine comes in that 5611?
  112. TSO

    1736 vs 1742 and dl 120 vs dl 125

    Not sure why it didn't show ... I'll try it again. Also, here was a previous discussion on the matter: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/massey-ferguson-owning-operating/329463-dl130-vs-dl135.html
  113. TSO

    John Deere 5400

    TractorData.com John Deere 5400 tractor information
  114. TSO

    Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

    KenB2920 talked me into looking for a flail, and I found a too-good-to-pass-up deal on a Ford 918H 8ft flail in great condition. So far I'm really liking it. Best I can tell is that it is from the 1990's. But... Does anybody have any specific knowledge on this mower? Any points of...
  115. TSO

    Picked up a new (to me) Flail Mower... very cool

    Just picked this up last week at an auction for a ridiculous price. Couldn't pass it up. It's a Ford 918h, 8 ft mower. That's still the original paint, in very good condition. I'm still trying to learn more about it, but I believe it hails from the 1990s. Cuts really nice. It's a good contrast...
  116. TSO

    Question about adding hydraulic top link

    Might be a dumb question... But how do I adjust the length of the top link when I'm standing at the rear of the tractor and trying to mount an implement? Does pushing my remote lever to detent allow me to manually pull/push the top link to the desired length?
  117. TSO

    I've got double vision!

    Got my new (used with 290 hrs) Massey 1652 in the mail last week. Put on about 25 hrs so far... So I'm putting the 1648 up for sale if anyone's interested. Why I bought it? -LOVE my 1648. As I acquire more equipment and machinery for my business, this "large frame CUT" will remain my...
  118. TSO

    Scag vs Bad Boy

    I can actually cut (productively and with quality) about 25% of my own grass at full speed, which for mine I believe is around 11 or 12 mph. Of the remaining, about half of it I probably cut at 7 or 8 mph, and the remaining half is under 4 mph. The only time I noticed a major difference in how...
  119. TSO

    PICTURES ONLY thread

    Nice pics. That's a big stump! ----- Planted about an acre of Pumpkins
  120. TSO

    Scag vs Bad Boy

    So ... looked further, apparently I have dual Hydro-Gear 21cc hydraulic pumps, and Parker TG0335 wheel-motors. Now I don't know what to think.
  121. TSO

    Loader GC2310 FEL very weak

    I'm sure that there is probably a certain point in the duty cycle life of hydraulic fluid in these machines where what you are saying makes sense, in regards to excessive heat and wear. I probably put more hours on my CUT in a year than the majority of owners on this forum will do in 5 or 10...
  122. TSO

    Scag vs Bad Boy

    The Scag is a good machine, but the build, cut, and component quality isn't any better than Hustler, Exmark, Gravely, etc. When it comes to these commercial mowers, it all boils down to dealer convenience and personal seating preference...and color of course. Hustler recently ranked number one...
  123. TSO

    Scag vs Bad Boy

    What's night and day about cutting with the diesel vs gas? I've had two commercial mowers, but both diesel... I don't know what the gasser would feel like.
  124. TSO

    Scag vs Bad Boy

    My Z diesel uses Parker, I believe ... But I don't know what advantages or disadvantages that gives me compared to the other options out there. Does anyone know?
  125. TSO

    Scag vs Bad Boy

    I would also agree ... If ride quality over rough terrain is the highest concern, I would think Ferris first. I have a Hustler commercial mower that I'm very happy with, but there are times that I think about what it might be like with the Ferris suspension platform. That said... Between the...
  126. TSO

    Equipment blooper thread

    Thanks! Yeah, you definitely need to be careful. It actually does great ripping out roots and small stumps. Acts as a dozer in reverse. Never bent rippers, or the slots... Seem others post about it though. This BB seems to be build really stout. Maybe they used harder steel? LOL, ok I get...
  127. TSO

    Equipment blooper thread

    Bent the "top link cross member brackets" (my term, not sure what it's actually called) on my box blade yesterday, while rough grading a site. Was snagging hidden stumps in both directions, and eventually snagged one in reverse hard enough to bend the brackets. Did the same thing last year...
  128. TSO

    Buying Advice CAT Challenger MT295B potential buy

    I'd say go for it. Look for a Massey 1530 loader. I believe there's one on tractorhouse for around $2500. That's the loader model that fit that tractor. Along with the ML40 (Challenger Yellow) and there was an AGCO Orange one out there too ... can't remember the model number off hand. But...
  129. TSO

    Looks like LS is rolling out their own Tier-4 Engines....

    Just noticed this on the LS site... From the page: "LS Tier 4 Engine - 3 Cyl. In-line, Water-cooled 4cycle Turbo diesel, CRDI. Meets EPAç—´ most stringent emission standards while delivering rated horsepower quietly with low vibration. Easy Open One-Piece Hood - provides accessibility for easy...
  130. TSO

    Buying Advice CAT Challenger MT295B potential buy

    Yes, the equivalent Massey would be the 1552, and the AGCO model, I believe, is the ST52a. Very good tractors. Iseki builds the whole thing. There would also be an equivalent Iseki model in Australian or Japanese markets. For that price I wouldn't hesitate. That has the 3.0L engine, nice...
  131. TSO

    1635 Filters

    Sorry, had to take a screen shot of my phone ... That's where I keep all my notes:
  132. TSO

    PICTURES ONLY thread

    How's that BH? Is it easy to mount and dismount? Good digging power?
  133. TSO

    Who makes the HST transmission in YOUR tractor?

    I was doing maintenance on my Massey last night, part of which included removing the washable HST filter cartridges. There are two of them, identical filters, one sits apparently in the pump suction line, the other is found inside the bottom of the trans housing. these filters are separate from...
  134. TSO

    DL130 vs DL135

    Here's the paper specs for the DL130 vs DL135
  135. TSO

    Buying Advice 1758 Review

    Okay, here's a comparison. Looks like the loaders are very close in specs, and the new one actually "out-specs" the old one on paper.
  136. TSO

    Buying Advice 1758 Review

    Woblin ... AGCO just switched suppliers for the loaders. Soo Tractor (Radius Steel Fabrication, Sioux City, IA) was the previous supplier. They made your DL120, my DL130, and the rest of the MF, AGCO, CAT Challenger, etc loaders. Now, they are using ALO-Quicke. No one has seen the official...
  137. TSO

    Work UTV ... narrow down some choices please

    Thanx! The wife and kids are very happy with it! I may have used it a bit too :D
  138. TSO

    Utility Vehicles?

  139. TSO

    Work UTV ... narrow down some choices please

    Thanks for the posts everyone. Went to my local JD dealer today, and they had a nice used low hour Gator 620i trade-in unit. Kawasaki gasser which I like, Only 275 hrs, hydraulic dump bed, very clean. According to TractorHouse, I got a good deal at $7k. New pricing (625i) with hydraulic dump...
  140. TSO

    Work UTV ... narrow down some choices please

    Hello ... Looking for a work machine for my wife. Something to truck around feed, water, straw, garden supplies, rocks, firewood, etc. I'm not really familiar with all of the offerings, and hoping someone can narrow down some contenders ... And rank them as well. Here's the requirements: 4x4...
  141. TSO

    3pt Power Rakes (ie Harley): operational difference between chain & gear driven?

    Posted this in the "attachments" sub forum but it's not getting much attention... I'm in the market for a 3pt power rake / Harley rake / soil conditioner... I've seen there are two basic drive styles, chain reduction drives the drum, or, gear connections drive the drum. The PTO shaft drives...
  142. TSO

    3pt POWER RAKES ...operational difference between chain driven & gear driven ?

    I'm in the market for a 3pt power rake / Harley rake / soil conditioner... I've seen there are two basic styles, chain reduction drives the drum, or, gear connections drive the drum. Seems like Harley brand uses chain, while FFC uses gear. I've watched pretty much every video online regarding...
  143. TSO

    1600 series emissions... EGR?

    The 4cyl Iseki diesel in my 1648 is tier 4i (interim). I hadn't thought about what that meant until someone in a Kubota thread mentioned their tier 4i used an EGR system for emissions. Anyone know if we have an EGR system in these?
  144. TSO

    Cold start issues, which fluid needs a heater?

    Ok ... please view the attached pics. I checked for fuel, and I'm getting fuel to the pump. I don't know the proper nomenclature for these mechanical parts, so please fill me in. I'm guessing these are the injectors ... those 4 nuts/bolts that are right together and would shoot fuel up into...
  145. TSO

    NX6010 has arrived!

    Nice meeting you too Kyle ... Nice tractor, hope you enjoy her! Here's her farewell to Michigan pic
  146. TSO

    Buying Advice What to buy and what's in the HP numbers?

    I made my own SSQA plow, using a western plow blade. I still haven't added a hydraulic cylinder, so it's manual turn (which is fine for now). But, I picked up the blade used for about $175, and have maybe another $175 in steel. If you can weld/fab, it's easy. It probably wouldn't cost all...
  147. TSO

    Cold start issues, which fluid needs a heater?

    Well, had a chance to change the filter today. There was some "gunky ice" chunks in the bowl. Cleaned it out, put it back on with a new filter, turned the ignition on (activating fuel pump) ... Fuel bowl filled right back up. Tried to start her, and same thing, no fuel getting to the...
  148. TSO

    Cold start issues, which fluid needs a heater?

    The last several days have been several degrees below zero, even down below - 15. The last two days I had cold starting issues with my Massey 1648. The engine would crank but I would get no fuel. The issue was easily resolved by pointing my torpedo heater at the right side of the engine for 5+...
  149. TSO

    My NX6010

    Stop yelling! Lol, glad you like your tractor. I have used a bucket on the front, but now have a QA snow plow that I made, as well as my rear blade. That's a good combo. The snow plow works better than the bucket since you can angle the snow and windrow it. You can still stack snow with a...
  150. TSO

    T9 & lot clearing, site prep, stumps, etc...?

    Hello Terramite community ... I just recently started looking into compact TLBs, and I noticed the terramite t9. I would not say that I am ready to buy at this very minute, but just loosely shopping around. I am also looking at the JD 110, and the Kubota L 45. I see that the T9 is smaller...
  151. TSO

    Do tractors adhere to GVW ratings?

    I was browsing thru my manual, and noticed that my rear and front axles have the same weight rating (4,630# each). I was thinking that was odd...I would have assumed that my rear axle would have a heavier rating. Trucks have to abide by different GVW ratings depending on which class they are...
  152. TSO

    where do you store your tractor - inside or out?

    Is that an old Ford truck there? .... Here's where mine has nestled in for the winter
  153. TSO

    HOW-TO-ADJUST (with pictures) Loader Relief Valve - Massey / Iseki / Challenger / etc

    BXpanded... Thank you for that information. I will have to do some more testing to get a baseline for what the loader actually weighs and how much psi is required to lift it by itself. No problem, my pleasure. I had a heck of a time trying to get the information, ended up using the scientific...
  154. TSO

    HOW-TO-ADJUST (with pictures) Loader Relief Valve - Massey / Iseki / Challenger / etc

    I'm not worried about viewing it while driving... Only for diagnostics. Anyone know the formula to determine the correlation between psi and actual lift strength? And, does the formula maintain consistency when the weights get higher? For example, I turned my psi up 6% to get back to factory...
  155. TSO

    HOW-TO-ADJUST (with pictures) Loader Relief Valve - Massey / Iseki / Challenger / etc

    Finally located the pressure-relief valve for my Massey 1648. This should be the same valve-assembly for multiple tractors built by Iseki (for Iseki, Massey, Challenger, etc). Once located, I was finally able to check my relief PSI. My pressure was set at 2350psi, which was low - the manual...
  156. TSO

    McCormick has switched suppliers ... (might be old news)

    I just noticed this today, so I apologize if this has already been shared. But I found it interesting... Looks like McCormick is not buying from Daedong anymore (the X10.xx series were Kioti clones). Looks like they switched to Kukje, because the new units are Branson clones. Personally I...
  157. TSO

    QUESTION: Identify this "adjustment" screw ???

    I was checking system pressure today... running at 2300psi at the remotes at PTO speed. This apparent "set screw" is located directly at where the hoses come out for the rear remotes. I adjusted it both ways, but it didn't change the PSI at the remotes. I adjusted it both with minor turns...
  158. TSO

    Picked up a new "accessory" for the tractor

    Thanks fellas Got a chance to use them today on a small driveway job. They really made the tractor more stable when moving around full bucket of gravel. The box blade isn't usually enough to keep the back end from getting squirmy when I've got full buckets of material like that, but with the...
  159. TSO

    Picked up a new "accessory" for the tractor

    So I've been looking for a nice set of MATCHING wheel weights for quite awhile. Finding the right size had been a challenge, and dealerships that claimed to have used weights (new ones are pricey) still wanted $1.00 per pound, if they had matching sets at all. So finally found a guy within a...
  160. TSO

    engine: tuning more HP?

    The Massey 1652, 1655, 1660 all use a 3.0L 4cyl Iseki diesel, but produce 52, 55 & 60 HP. Haven't received a real answer from the Massey dealers I've contacted, and no responses in the MF forum, so.......... Anyone know if (and how) the 1652 could be tuned to make 55 or 60 HP? Thanks in advance.
  161. TSO

    Adjusting loader relief: Massey 1648 (same as Iseki TG5470) ?

    I think the TG5470 is the same as the Massey 1648 (or maybe it's the Massey 15xx series ?) Can anyone show me where to adjust the hydraulic relief pressure? I've heard that a 10% increase in relief/pressure does wonders for the loader lift. I'm not looking to add capacity regularly, just...
  162. TSO

    Massey 1652 (and probably the 1552)... tune them up?

    I'm assuming the engine is the same in the 1652 / 1655 /1660 ... Could the 1652 be tuned up to 55 or 60 HP as is?
  163. TSO

    Comparison $20K comparison - Kioti DS4510HS vs Mahindra 4110 vs John Deere 2520

    It's odd, they describe it in the general description, but when you go to the loader spec page, the number is 2761 again. Must be a typo in the description.
  164. TSO

    Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

    KenB2920 stopped by last night and finished Siping the rest of his treads... The live action vid below shows how easy. http://youtu.be/ny0FIm0SCOs
  165. TSO

    Found this poor beat up R3039 yesterday...

    Update: stopped back by the dealer today and snapped a few more pics. Looks like it was used by an asphalt company or something, the rear is coated! What a mess. Oh, and only 563 hours!
  166. TSO

    Tractor Sizing Need advice on the size of tractor to look for

    Just a quick correction on your loader specs ... And, I have no problem with how you're using your tractor. If you damaged your FEL by doing what folks are complaining about in your video, then my tractor should be broken into several pieces by now. Just one word of caution though (which...
  167. TSO

    PICTURES ONLY thread

    That looks like a R3039 with a Bush Hog blade...
  168. TSO

    Found this poor beat up R3039 yesterday...

    This is the best one I have off hand...
  169. TSO

    Found this poor beat up R3039 yesterday...

    Stopped by my local Massey/Kioti dealership (VanPaemel Equipment) and found this poor abused tractor in one if the used rows. Any one of you guys recognize this old girl, or know who abused her sooo badly?
  170. TSO

    Location for checking system pressure? - Massey 16xx series

    Here's what my loader valve looks like ... Thoughts on how to adjust the relief pressure?
  171. TSO

    Fun with the loader part 2: Massey 1648/DL130 loader pallet test

    Haha, yeah that's true! I'm still waiting to test the hydraulic relief system to see where she's set ... and if she needs to be adjusted. She immediately tries to go into relief when lifting this much. Does anybody know (looking at the my valves here) how this system would get adjusted if needed?
  172. TSO

    Fun with the loader part 2: Massey 1648/DL130 loader pallet test

    You may or may not remember "fun with the loader, part 1" ... pallet-salt test last fall with my LS R4047 & my buddies Kubota L3540. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ls-tractors/297621-fun-loader-tonight-pallet-fork.html Well, just picked up another pallet of salt and thought it was time...
  173. TSO

    Location for checking system pressure? - Massey 16xx series

    Finally ordered a hydraulic pressure gauge so I can check relief pressure on my Massey while performing General maintenance on her over the winter.... Does anyone know where the point of adjustment is for the system relief on my 1648? Are the rear remotes an acceptable place for my reading...
  174. TSO

    Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

    Well, back to topic... The other night I borrowed my neighbors tire groover (thanks KenB2920) ... And grooved the tires on my Massey. Soooo easy! I think I had the whole thing done in under 1.5hrs.
  175. TSO

    16xx series - where to adjust hydraulic pressure?

    I've had the tractor for about a year now, and I finally now have a hydraulic pressure gauge on the way to check the system while I go over everything for routine maintenance this winter. Can anyone point me to where I would adjust hydraulic pressure if it was needed? And, are my rear remotes...
  176. TSO

    My NX6010

    While my 8ft back blade (actually made by "The Servis Company" probably 30+ years ago, before they were bought by, or converted to, Rhino...) is practically indestructible, and made for a much heavier duty tractor than mine ... the box-blade is more more like "everyone else's box blades on the...
  177. TSO

    New 1648 owner

    Doing great, thanks! Up around 275 hrs now, still been perfect. Here's that mower ... it actually measures 102". Works really well, makes a nice finish cut on grass, and mows down weeds well too, and the tractor had no problem with it.
  178. TSO

    Tractor Sizing Tractor pto for 7 foot cutter

    For what it's worth, I have an 8 ft dual blade Ford (old school) brushog ... and my Massey 1648 hydro (36.5 PTO HP) has no problem with it.
  179. TSO

    INPUT PLEASE: brush-hog gearbox question

    Hi folks, looking for some quick help. I recently picked up an old pull behind brushog and I've been "restoring" it (new tires, bolts, belts, hydraulics, PTO shaft, paint, etc...) to either use or sell. Finally finished it today and hooked everything up for the first test run. The gearbox...
  180. TSO

    Theoretical Q ... adjusting the rev limiter on my diesel ZTR

    I mow with a 66" Hustler Super Z diesel (25 HP Shibaura). It's a great mower, efficient, comfortable, nice cut, etc etc etc. Like anything else, there are times when I could use slightly more power. The RPM's are set by hand throttle position, but there is no tach to see what RPM's I'm...
  181. TSO

    2013 LS R4047

    No worries, I'll post the ones you sent me
  182. TSO

    Please Help Us Choose a NEW VIDEO TRACTOR!!!

    And the 3pt area is well built, accessible, and easy to adjust. Here she is next to my LS R4047.
  183. TSO

    Please Help Us Choose a NEW VIDEO TRACTOR!!!

    Everyone seems to think that my Massey is sexy ... and she likes the camera!
  184. TSO

    LS Tractor XR4046H Broken Tie Rod Flange

    Here's my Massey: note, Massey (Iseki) puts the steering cylinder & tie rod behind the front axle. They are built into 1 unit. Driver's side, looking from behind the front axle: Passenger side, looking from in front of the axle: ... And note, that little pool under the front is...
  185. TSO

    1700 series loader lift ability

    I recently found what I believe to be the limit of my DL130 loader... I was digging out an old porch for a guy, and using my 42 inch Forks, I lifted out this slab of concrete. Size is 4'x4'x10"... Now, a common method to weigh concrete is accounting for 150 pounds per cubic foot. That put...
  186. TSO

    Math Wizards ... any way to figure out this loader question?

    Won't be able to do that if I'm lifting the boiler. ---------------------------------------------------- Lifted this the other day, tearing out an old porch for someone. Really interesting to see a 4'x4' slab at 10" thickness! The concrete weight formula works out to be right around 2000...
  187. TSO

    Math Wizards ... any way to figure out this loader question?

    Ok, so I was moving around some concrete slabs with my 42" forks. This particular slab was 72" wide X 66" deep X 4" (avg) thickness. So we're looking at roughly 11cu/ft of cement. Allegedly the avg weight of cement is 150lbs per cuft... So, 1650lbs overall weight. So here's the question...
  188. TSO

    Land "smoothing" job ... big ruts... best options?

    Well, picked up a 6.5' KK box frame disc today. Weighs around 800lbs. I had never priced them out at the store until now ... this thing sells new for around $1500 !!! Crazy Picked this up for $700 ... pretty happy about that. It could use a sanding & fresh coat of paint, but otherwise it's...
  189. TSO

    Land "smoothing" job ... big ruts... best options?

    So I just had a job come up that entails smoothing out about 6 acres of old row crop farm land. It looks like someone left the rows with the ruts, and it's been growing wild ever since. We just brush hogged this weekend, and it was really bumpy to drive over. Includes weeds and scrub brush and...
  190. TSO

    why so few of the (larger) 1600/1700 tractors talked about on here?

    Just curious ... obviously I have the 1648. But it's very rare that people talk about the mid to high HP models of these series on the MF forums. Are they not popular tractors? Are the people that own or shop for them (other than me) too busy to post? Are they just so reliable that no one...
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