Need to buy a tractor - concerned about emissions stuff (sacrifice hp?)

[ericm979]

The Tier 4 emissions limits below 25.5hp are lax enough that they can be met with traditional mechanical fuel injection and just changes to combustion chamber shape and injection timing. Above 25.5hp the limits are stricter and a DPF or DOC or both is required to meet them. Most but not all of them also have EFI. Above 75hp the limits get tighter again, and that's where they have to use DEF.

There aren't any new tractors over 25.5hp that don't have DOC or DPF. However not all of them do regens.

Unlike the pre-emissions Kubota I had, the Branson's tier 4 exhaust doesn't smoke or stink up the barn when I'm changing implements. It's nice to not be breathing that stuff.

 

[RjCorazza]

I generally idle my L4060 at 1500 Rpms, or shut it down if not used for 5-10m.
Generally, but not always. Today I pulled fence posts for several hours, and idled at 600-700 Rpms for most of the time. After almost 400 hours, I average 54 hours between regens, and they have all been uneventful.

 

[fried1765]

A 40-horsepower tractor will allow you to spin a 72" Rotary Cutter through very tall grass.

15 acres X 3 times per month is 45 acres. For me, a 72" Rotary Cutter would be minimum.



I have a 2013 purchased, Tier IV / DPF tractor. Most of my work is in woods, so it runs at moderate revs.

You can run a Tier IV tractor slow but you cannot regenerate during tractor work at slow rpms. The alternative is to park, then perform an active regeneration, which requires parking, then setting the throttle to 2,200 rpm for around 16 minutes to heat the DPF sufficiently to incinerate accumulated soot. Parked fuel regeneration cost $1.00.

Tier IV emission controls and DPFs began to phase in dealer tractor inventories ten years ago.
Old news in 2019.

Consensus considers DPF problems 90% caused by operators who do not carefully read regeneration procedures in Operator's Manual or refuse to follow the procedures. Many small property users regenerate just once per year. This creates regeneration procedure uncertainty in itself. (Regeneraton occurs every ~~60 engine hours. Non-commercial users average 80 engine hours per year.)

Operator Manuals for DPF equipped compact tractors do a poor job of explaining DPFs and a poor job of explaining regeneration cycles. Most manuals do not inform that filter soot accumulates faster during low weather temperatures, none inform time required for DPF to attain 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit, the ignition temperature for diesel soot and none address faster soot accumulation at higher altitudes. It seems to me a DPF temperature readout on electronic instrument panels would address many DPF complaints, as would more descriptive technical writing.



Diesel Particulate Filter supersedes tractor muffler.
At some point in time DPF needs to be replaced.
At some point in time tractors with mufflers need the muffler replaced.

Tire wear and tire replacement will cause as many headaches and more expense than DPF for most long term compact tractor owners who read and comprehend their Operator's Manual.

As Jeff has stated MANY times,...... he lives 8 miles from his Kubota dealer.
He relies totally on his Kubota dealer for support.

I live 80 miles from the nearest Kubota dealer.
My 48 HP Kubota is pre-emissions.
I will likely never visit a Kubota dealer.
Kubota parts, from Messick's, are delivered by the very nice UPS man.

The OP does not live near any dealer.
As the OP has already learned about Tier IV, there are many DPF/DEF issues discussed here on TBN.
None of them will ever apply to me.

 

[Trillium Farm]

If choosing between 25 hp no anti pollution gadgets & 35hp w/anti pollution gadgets and same frames I'd go with 25 as the 35 will be derated to just about the same, if you go to 40-45 then it
is different. You can't think old school with these new motors, the lubrication is better now and actually it is easier on them to rev up than to lug them.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Thx everyone for the sage advice and input so far... I look forward to a lot more.

One thing I failed to mention.... on the cleaning up the atv trails, it is very tight - the CT-28 McCormick can barely make it to the back of the trails... but most sections are very tight and, five of those 15 acres that need to be mowed are at the back of the trails with deer blinds, feeders, etc that I need to mow at least once a month - that's the main reason I was thinking 35-40hp. (to be able to get the jobs done, but still be able to maneuver thru the tight woods to fix the atv trails at the back of the property).

Other:
4 foot tiller
5 foot box blade
5 foot titan brush hog

If buying new consider then a vineyard tractor, they are built narrower w/same hp as others and would suite you to a T

 

[ovrszd]

If choosing between 25 hp no anti pollution gadgets & 35hp w/anti pollution gadgets and same frames I'd go with 25 as the 35 will be derated to just about the same, if you go to 40-45 then it
is different. You can't think old school with these new motors, the lubrication is better now and actually it is easier on them to rev up than to lug them.

This point really aggravates me. It appears the HP rating is before the emissions system. So the end result is less power to the ground. I don't know what the answer is but I know the current system is very misleading.

Thanks for mentioning that.

 

[pattycake]

This point really aggravates me. It appears the HP rating is before the emissions system. So the end result is less power to the ground. I don't know what the answer is but I know the current system is very misleading.

Thanks for mentioning that.

Great.... if this is true then the 25hp will provide the same HP as the 35.... great... and I thought I was on my way to the correct decision (MF, Branson, etc). Back to the drawing board.

 

[KennyG]

There is a lot of interesting ideas here. I don't know much about the current emissions systems, but I don't understand the concerns about running at rated RPMs. I come from a farming background and we always ran tractors (gas or diesel) at the rated speed. In fact, when I was young, my Dad would yell at me for running less than full throttle. These things are intended to run wide open, that's why they are governed to 2500 or 3000 rpm instead of redlined at 6000 rpm. I don't always have mine wide open, but if there is work to be done and the power can be used, the throttle is opened up.

Also, I second the thought of asking about orchard tractors. I'm in the fruit belt and I see lots of 30 to 50 hp tractors that are set up for narrow tracks.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Great.... if this is true then the 25hp will provide the same HP as the 35.... great... and I thought I was on my way to the correct decision (MF, Branson, etc). Back to the drawing board.

Not so fast. I call "shenanigans" to their claim. Lots of opinionated folks come and go on here, with very little to no hard factual data to back up some rather wild claims. You don't really think *any* tractor manufacturer is going to put out hp claims that can be easily proven false do you? No one will, not any "color" tractor wants that kind of bad publicity.

Any time you see a "wild claim" like this, with no attempt to provide hard proof...

Well, feel free to ignore it at your leisure.

This is the internet afterall.

 

[pattycake]

Not so fast. I call "shenanigans" to their claim. Lots of opinionated folks come and go on here, with very little to no hard factual data to back up some rather wild claims. You don't really think *any* tractor manufacturer is going to put out hp claims that can be easily proven false do you? No one will, not any "color" tractor wants that kind of bad publicity.

Any time you see a "wild claim" like this, with no attempt to provide hard proof...

Well, feel free to ignore it at your leisure.

This is the internet afterall.

Yep... It's the internet.... it HAS to be true.

And yet again, more sage advice.