Advice on locating missing survey pin?

[sixdogs]

....


...
Are aerial photos available at the county? Our county has the property lines drawn on aerial photos. If your county has these photos that should get you close to the corner to look for the pin.

Later,
Dan

I was just thinking the same thing. When we lived in Maine our boundaries of long ago were easily identified by old Soil and Water Conservation aerial soil maps. Boudaries often followed soil types and I'll bet you have some hidden rock walls in there as well. Ours was interesting because our wooded portion was all fields long ago. You might look at your "Property Abstract" that is part of your legal paperwork and shows every transfer of property. Ours started with John Admas and the split from Massachusetts and went forward. Interesting reading if nothing else.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Dodge Man may have a better answer, but a stake (with hieroglyphics on it) is a temporary marker used by surveyors, not a permanent marker.

 

[Jstpssng]

Thanks to all. I'll try the metal detector and then maybe hire a pro. The original survey is from 1909 and seems quite precise. Distance from both known pins is about 650' through deep woods. There was a stake. I know about where it was but a few years ago the stake was pulled and a new one appeared and the change was in my favor... I suspect neighbor #3. That stake is gone now too. There is currently no action to sell or divide that I know of but I'm thinking about starting a timber stand improvement plan and don't want to cut anything that isn't mine.

Given the circumstances, I'd hire a surveyor. 100 years ago your line was done with a steel tape and a staff compass... even my hand held compass is more accurate than what they had then. Have it done right, maybe record it at the registry, and be done with it.

What kind of TSI are you planning? Make sure you take before and after pictures, 20 years from now you'll be glad that you did. :thumbsup:

One more suggestion, since your pin seems to have a gypsy spirit; once it's set properly find a pipe big enough to slide over it: engrave or braze your deed book and page# on it, and drive it down below the soil surface. To make it easier to locate later, attach a piece of refrigerator magnet to it. That will drive a ferrous metal detector crazy... back in my mortgage inspector days I once dug down 1 1/2 feet thinking I would find a pin; only to find a piece of magnet the size of my thumbnail.

 

[caver]

Just had my place surveyed (by a TBN member) and gained 6/10ths of an acre :thumbsup: LOL
One of the old pins they found was 30' from where I was searching with a metal detector. I had crudely plotted it out with ExpertGPS using two known pins. One was a section corner mushroom cap type.

 

[Pilot]

I used to know where one of our pins was, even flagged a shrub above it. Went looking for it a year ago and can't find it. Measured off another corner along the road & still can't find it. Tried a metal detector and got a lot of false indications and didn't find it.

Going to measure again. Also might be able to find a pin on the other side (the far corner of the neighbor's) and the missing pin should be in line roughly half way between the two known pins.

 

[boggen]

sometimes i gotta wonder. GPS is getting so much better these days for accuracy. and you can look up in a "PLOT" book, i normally get a new one in mail each year free of charge. for coordinates.

i suppose though. the coordinates are from a certain "height above sea level" and need to be adjusted for a given height or does GPS do that already?

 

[Pilot]

GPS in general isn't very accurate for elevation. The ones surveyors use may be an exception. Google Earth isn't very accurate for elevation, either.

 

[The Haymaker]

I know distances and directions from two pins that converge on a missing point. The terrain is to rough to pull a tape and I'd like to mark along the lines. Seems like a good GPS might solve my problem. Any how-to advice or on affordable systems or places to rent? Thanks in advance.

Put new blades on the finish mower. Works for me, unfortunately, every time.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I've gotta say, if my neighbor came to me and asked for my help locating a pin, I'd politely decline. As my father likes to say, "Great minds think alike. So do dumbasses." Just because me and my neighbor find a spot and both agree that's where the pin ought to be, doesn't mean we're likely to be correct. If the change is in my favor, who's to say years later, somebody doesn't find the "real" pin and start trouble after I've put up a fence or something. And if the change is in his favor, you darn well better believe I'm not going to trust it until a licensed surveyor puts his stamp on it. So, at the end of the day, we can sit around and opine as long as we want about where we think the pin is or ought to be, but if you need to know for sure, you've just got to hire a surveyor. And that goes double if you suspect that someone has been moving markers around.

BTW, if the issue is logging the property, perhaps you could side-step the question of where the pin is located by getting a signed document from your neighbor giving you permission to log up to a certain line. That way, if it's your land, it doesn't matter because it's yours, and if it's your neighbor's land, it doesn't matter because you've got permission. Just a thought.

 

[Jstpssng]

I've gotta say, if my neighbor came to me and asked for my help locating a pin, I'd politely decline. As my father likes to say, "Great minds think alike. So do dumbasses." Just because me and my neighbor find a spot and both agree that's where the pin ought to be, doesn't mean we're likely to be correct. If the change is in my favor, who's to say years later, somebody doesn't find the "real" pin and start trouble after I've put up a fence or something. And if the change is in his favor, you darn well better believe I'm not going to trust it until a licensed surveyor puts his stamp on it. So, at the end of the day, we can sit around and opine as long as we want about where we think the pin is or ought to be, but if you need to know for sure, you've just got to hire a surveyor. And that goes double if you suspect that someone has been moving markers around..

That's where you and I differ. If I'm happy with what we agree upon and new deeds are registered accordingly; I don't care what happens years down the road. Any agreement I made would be based on what the original deeds describe anyways; and unless there was already a good metes and bounds description on both properties the lines are going to be based on the surveyer's expertise and interpretation. I've seen hard feelings over that too.

BTW, if the issue is logging the property, perhaps you could side-step the question of where the pin is located by getting a signed document from your neighbor giving you permission to log up to a certain line. That way, if it's your land, it doesn't matter because it's yours, and if it's your neighbor's land, it doesn't matter because you've got permission. Just a thought.

I would never agree to that if I was the neighbor. When I'm laying out a harvest block and can't determine where the line is, I stay completely away from where the line might be. I'd rather leave a little wood than take a chance of a timber trespass. Not only is that too expensive; but neither I nor my employer needs that kind of reputation.

 

[rinconryan]

I use my Garmin handheld GPS very often for finding corners and have good results. If you take a shot on the corners you have found then have a distance to the lost corner from a survey or your deed, you can create a waypoint where the corner should be. This will give you an area that is close so you can use a metal detector. Then when you find the corner put a t-post in the directions you property goes, about 1/2' away. It is a P.I.T.A. when someone puts a big pipe over the corner and you come out to survey. If you cant find it get a surveyor out there.

 

[Jstpssng]

I use my Garmin handheld GPS very often for finding corners and have good results. If you take a shot on the corners you have found then have a distance to the lost corner from a survey or your deed, you can create a waypoint where the corner should be. This will give you an area that is close so you can use a metal detector. Then when you find the corner put a t-post in the directions you property goes, about 1/2' away. It is a P.I.T.A. when someone puts a big pipe over the corner and you come out to survey. If you cant find it get a surveyor out there.

What do you have for a Garmin? We've had good luck with the 60 series; I had my last one for 5 years of daily use, in all sorts of weather. Wouldn't you know, they've been discontinued.

 

[forgeblast]

I have a legend and its a pita, it has some type of flaw that will not let it do a rest and it only ever searches for sats. Garmin wanted 70.00 to look at it with no guarentee of a replacement or fix.

 

[rinconryan]

I have a Colorado 400t, which has also been discontinued. Garmin replaced it with the Oregon series. Just picked up an Oregon 450t for work and it seems to be just as good, just a touch screen. I have compared the ties with the Garmin to our survey grade GPS and is usually with in 10' of each other, not to bad.

 

[Jstpssng]

I have a Colorado 400t, which has also been discontinued. Garmin replaced it with the Oregon series. Just picked up an Oregon 450t for work and it seems to be just as good, just a touch screen. I have compared the ties with the Garmin to our survey grade GPS and is usually with in 10' of each other, not to bad.

no, can't complain about that.

30+ years ago we were out marking wood and while trying to figurte out where we were on the photo, the foreman said "wouldn't it be nice if there was a little flashing dot that shows us where we are?"
Voila, now we have GPS. :thumbsup:

My first GPS experience was with some kind of Magellan in 1992. They were about the size of a firebrick, but a lot less useful.
I then bought a Garmin12 back in 1998, before they stopped scrambling the sats. It was a good unit for it's time, but we've come a long ways since then. We even use handhelds to locate corners for the GIS system. They may not be perfect, but often it's an improvement over what we had.

 

[Raider43]

First thing to do is at least discuss with the local land surveyor. Second decide why you want this location and how accurate you want it. (that will also help decide to hire someone or not). Third if you decide to go it alone and take the responsibility, take a tape and start from your so called know point and measure horizontally (not on the slope) the 650 feet or whatever in a straight line. tie ribbon every 50 feet or so. You want to be able to see the line back so you stay straight. Then do the same from the other known point (so called). You will most likely not come to the same point because your direction is approximate and the distance is the better measurement. That will get you close (depending on how good your are with measuring). This is called a distance, distance intersection. then use the metal detector. If you find something, it might be the corner but only a land surveyor can certify. Also doing when the leaves are down makes a world of difference.

Paul
licensed land surveyor for 25 years, Conn.

Now for the problem, if the deed distance is wrong, your are wrong and you have know way of knowing this. The licensed professional does.