How to safely drive on a frozen body of water

[Tig]

I created this thread as a reference because each year people come to TBN looking for the answer. I've lived on the edge of a lake and ice fished and traveled on frozen lakes most of my life. I'm a self proclaimed good judge of ice conditions. It's never safe, it's a calculated risk. Safe just isn't the correct word for a frozen lake, pond or river and no one on the internet can honestly asses the risk of your lake because they do not know your lake. Springs, currents, marshes, creeks, sunshine, extreme cold all cause problems with ice. 5 mm of snow can hide every one of these problems.
Over the years I have known a more than dozen people who have gone through "safe" ice. The uncle of one of these people drowned. Not in the initial accident but in the confusion after. Falling in with a vehicle is not like jumping in the pool. It's an accident, it can be violent and confusing. Especially in the context of a tractor roll over. You may be injured or knocked unconscious before you ever get wet. As a kid I once stepped in an ankle deep puddle only to slide into 3' of water where I was trapped by a slippery incline on all sides. Fortunately I was able to swim close enough to a ladder on a dock to grab hold and climb out. Two years ago I almost had a similar accident 600m out from my home. There's no ladders out there.

The most common safety strategy I hear is "leave the window or door open" as you drive or "stay in the shallows". Well here is a guy who one year ago today was standing beside his truck in the shallows, he died.

Truck plunges through ice into Ottawa River | Canada | News | Toronto Sun

Where I live I have fished the lake in winter since the 60s. Last year two vehicles were lost in an area that had never been a concern. My brother in law was fishing on more than 18" of ice 100 feet away from the first one. His buddy walked over in disbelief and fell in before he even got there.
The internet can't tell you if you should go out on the ice. It's your call.

 

[fdmars]

Great post, thanks for the info.

 

[slowzuki]

Our river is quite predicable, stay away from the shore, shallows and streams. If there is snow, drill a hole no matter how late into Jan it is.

Don't take trucks out, as they bust through pressure ridges. If you need to take a truck out, plow the area with a 4 wheeler days before in cold weather to let the ice thicken.

We don't get a lot of drownings here but several years ago 4 drunk snowmobilers thought they would drive through the culvert they take their boat through in the summer. Nope. It doesn't freeze there ever. 4 went in, one came out.

 

[PhilNH5]

Good post.
We just lost an ice fisherman on ffriday. Riding on back of snowmobile after a day of fishing. Snowmobile went through thin ice. Driver made it out. Passenger did not.
Here is a link to the NH Union Leader article

Man dies after falling through Nubanusit Lake ice - Friday, Jan. 7, 2011

phil

 

[Reg]

A few years ago a friend dropped his snowmobile through the "ice" of a local pond/lake.
It was local to him, but not well known.
In retrospect I have to admit that what followed was "unwise" at best.

Some background; He has a slight hearing problem and was wearing a full coverage helmet.
It seems his buddies heard some creaking and decided to call it, he either missed or didn't understand their call to get off the ice and was a bit puzzled that they took off in the particular direction that they did - for whatever reason he chose a wrong direction and went through.

I ran into one of his buddies the next day, he was getting a group together to go out and retrieve the snowmobile, so my first question was, "who is going down ?"
They seemed to think that they would be able to walk out there and somehow drop a hook onto it, then just pull it up ~~~~ yeah, weird.
{If you are on the edge of ice that the sled broke through pulling up on a rope hard enough to raise that sled.... etc.}
I volunteered to dive for it (dry suit scuba, dry gloves, etc., I had dived under ice before).
When the sled went down our buddy had bobbed up, got on the thin ice and before going to shore had left his helmet to mark the spot, perhaps doubtful wisdom.

This was early Spring, so things were melting fast and the chances of that helmet moving were fair to high.

I met the crew and they had assembled a couple of aluminum row boats and a variety of inflatable tubes and other tow toys - doubtful that there would be 600 lbs of buoyancy all told.
I suited up, they were all in winter work clothing.
Basically we dragged the boats across the ice where we could and they got in the boats where the ice was way too thin, then we busted through.
Most of it was so shallow that I could walk through and drag the boats.

The helmet was still there and with a circular search pattern I found the sled in about 1/2 hour, probably 20 ft of water.
What followed would have been comedic had it not been so damned dangerous.
In what amounted to freezing slush an aluminum row boat with a sled still in the water but lashed to the transom - 4 or 5 hefty guys in the bow to "balance" it, or to at least keep the transom out of the water.
Three other guys with the other boat, closer to shore with a tow rope and paddles, poles, etc.

If any ONE thing had gone wrong in all of this someone could have gone in, i.e. we would have created another victim with no better excuse than that we were trying to salvage a few thousand dollars worth of toy and save our buddy from (I think) about a $150 a day fine for every day that it was in there.

BTW, our friend got out of the hospital the next day, mild hypothermia.

I was diving "solo" - don't preach, I know about the buddy rule.
Instructors basically dive "solo" all the time, though many of us will demo an unexpected fake problem early in a course to emphasize that ANY diver (certified or novice) can help any diver at any time when there is a need.

Point is; DO NOT BECOME or help create another victim, when rescuing and ESPECIALLY NOT when retrieving mere material things.
Nothing is worth another life, what we did (how we did it) was dumb and dangerous.
We were lucky, it is not luck that I should have counted on and will not count on again.

 

[Jstpssng]

A few years ago a friend dropped his snowmobile through the "ice" of a local pond/lake.
It was local to him, but not well known.
In retrospect I have to admit that what followed was "unwise" at best.

Some background; He has a slight hearing problem and was wearing a full coverage helmet.
It seems his buddies heard some creaking and decided to call it, he either missed or didn't understand their call to get off the ice and was a bit puzzled that they took off in the particular direction that they did - for whatever reason he chose a wrong direction and went through.

I ran into one of his buddies the next day, he was getting a group together to go out and retrieve the snowmobile, so my first question was, "who is going down ?"
They seemed to think that they would be able to walk out there and somehow drop a hook onto it, then just pull it up ~~~~ yeah, weird.
{If you are on the edge of ice that the sled broke through pulling up on a rope hard enough to raise that sled.... etc.}
I volunteered to dive for it (dry suit scuba, dry gloves, etc., I had dived under ice before).
When the sled went down our buddy had bobbed up, got on the thin ice and before going to shore had left his helmet to mark the spot, perhaps doubtful wisdom.

This was early Spring, so things were melting fast and the chances of that helmet moving were fair to high.

I met the crew and they had assembled a couple of aluminum row boats and a variety of inflatable tubes and other tow toys - doubtful that there would be 600 lbs of buoyancy all told.
I suited up, they were all in winter work clothing.
Basically we dragged the boats across the ice where we could and they got in the boats where the ice was way too thin, then we busted through.
Most of it was so shallow that I could walk through and drag the boats.

The helmet was still there and with a circular search pattern I found the sled in about 1/2 hour, probably 20 ft of water.
What followed would have been comedic had it not been so damned dangerous.
In what amounted to freezing slush an aluminum row boat with a sled still in the water but lashed to the transom - 4 or 5 hefty guys in the bow to "balance" it, or to at least keep the transom out of the water.
Three other guys with the other boat, closer to shore with a tow rope and paddles, poles, etc.

If any ONE thing had gone wrong in all of this someone could have gone in, i.e. we would have created another victim with no better excuse than that we were trying to salvage a few thousand dollars worth of toy and save our buddy from (I think) about a $150 a day fine for every day that it was in there.

BTW, our friend got out of the hospital the next day, mild hypothermia.

I was diving "solo" - don't preach, I know about the buddy rule.
Instructors basically dive "solo" all the time, though many of us will demo an unexpected fake problem early in a course to emphasize that ANY diver (certified or novice) can help any diver at any time when there is a need.

Point is; DO NOT BECOME or help create another victim, when rescuing and ESPECIALLY NOT when retrieving mere material things.
Nothing is worth another life, what we did (how we did it) was dumb and dangerous.
We were lucky, it is not luck that I should have counted on and will not count on again.

You say that now, but can we assume you were trying to reduce the risk by joining the crew?

 

[Jstpssng]

I created this thread as a reference because each year people come to TBN looking for the answer. I've lived on the edge of a lake and ice fished and traveled on frozen lakes most of my life. I'm a self proclaimed good judge of ice conditions. It's never safe, it's a calculated risk. Safe just isn't the correct word for a frozen lake, pond or river and no one on the internet can honestly asses the risk of your lake because they do not know your lake. Springs, currents, marshes, creeks, sunshine, extreme cold all cause problems with ice. 5 mm of snow can hide every one of these problems.
Over the years I have known a more than dozen people who have gone through "safe" ice. The uncle of one of these people drowned. Not in the initial accident but in the confusion after. Falling in with a vehicle is not like jumping in the pool. It's an accident, it can be violent and confusing. Especially in the context of a tractor roll over. You may be injured or knocked unconscious before you ever get wet. As a kid I once stepped in an ankle deep puddle only to slide into 3' of water where I was trapped by a slippery incline on all sides. Fortunately I was able to swim close enough to a ladder on a dock to grab hold and climb out. Two years ago I almost had a similar accident 600m out from my home. There's no ladders out there.

The most common safety strategy I hear is "leave the window or door open" as you drive or "stay in the shallows". Well here is a guy who one year ago today was standing beside his truck in the shallows, he died.

Truck plunges through ice into Ottawa River | Canada | News | Toronto Sun

Where I live I have fished the lake in winter since the 60s. Last year two vehicles were lost in an area that had never been a concern. My brother in law was fishing on more than 18" of ice 100 feet away from the first one. His buddy walked over in disbelief and fell in before he even got there.
The internet can't tell you if you should go out on the ice. It's your call.

Great points, and timely too. I don't trucks drive on ice. I did years ago when I was young and foolish, but not now. My ATV will float, so I will use that on occasion. I also may use my snowsled, but only if there has been plenty of activity already. (At least I can punch that out and hopefully drive out of trouble if need be.)

Years ago I was talking to a neighbor who had just lost his sister when the pickup she was riding in went through the ice. She could swim, nobody else could. She went down and got one person out... they found her on the bottom with the other 2 people in the truck.

as I said before, I don't drive on ice. That story cured me.

 

[Reg]

You say that now, but can we assume you were trying to reduce the risk by joining the crew?

Sure, it would be NICE for anyone/everyone to assume the best in all of us (-:
If anything bad had transpired I am quite sure that less polite assumptions would have been made.
Fortunately the outcome was just about the best possible.
Unfortunately I didn't fully consider the risks that I was encouraging others to take.
From strictly a safety POV we all should have just said, "Fergettit, it is a loss, pay the fines, if the authorities want it out they can have it professionally removed, maybe in the Spring."
Lessons learned, 20/20 hindsight, etc.

Anyway, a good thread. Thanks to the O/P for starting it.

 

[brandoro]

We lose a few snowmobilers almost every year around here, thin ice, bad ice or no ice. Some will often cross open water with powerful machines, they don't always make it.
My scary ice story involved a guy in a car. I used to live on the edge of a lake, one day early winter I looked out the window and saw a guy in a car driving around the bay on the ice. At this point the lake had only been frozen a few days, I hadn't even walked out on the edge to see how thick it was, for sure hadn't thought of taking any kind of vehicle out there. I stood by the window with the cordless phone in my hand waiting for him to go through. As I waited I considered my options, how I might be able to fish him out if he was able to get to the surface, where my life jackets were, things like that. Amazingly, after a few minutes of this he drove back off. Just typing this has driven my heart rate up a bit. When I was outside later I did walk out a few feet on the ice and would guess it was a little more than an inch thick. It was a good day for him, he survived to do other foolish things.

 

[Redneck in training]

There was an episode on "Dirty jobs" about a guy in MN that makes living by removing vehicles going trough ice from water. Forgot how many they pull a season.